[RD] Remembering 9-11-2001 (20 freaking years later)

[Zardnaar]

Wow. How did as much as 14 above the planes survive?

From memory some weren't on the floor they were supposed to be on. Others made it down the only stairwell that was open.

 

[Josu]

I was 21, I was in the house my family used to rent during summer in a beach town.
Although sunny, I did not went to the beach beacuse I was preparing a university exam which was schedulled for the 12st.
It was my last retake, if passing the exam I would be ending my undergraduate studies and would be able to start the postgraduate education, otherwise I would be kicked out.

It was about 3 PM, I took a rest of preparing the exam and decided to watch news on TV before lunch.
I spent the rest of the day in front of TV and did not study a minute.

I took an horrible exam. Passed several days thinking that I was going to fail the exam again and I that I would be kicked out.
Some days later a classmate phoned me at 10 pm and told me that the califications were allready in the calification board. He did not know my ID number (here writting name, last name and calification is forbiden), so he was not able to check.
Only 8 people out of more than a hundred passed the exam.
It was one night more without sleeping, next day I was at the campus' doors before they were open
I don't know how, but I got a 5 out of 10.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Here are a few more examples of 9/11 from Canada's perspective:

First responders: Meet some of the Canadians who rushed to New York after the 9/11 attacks

How Gander's response to 9/11 changed the lives of its teenagers

Terror, tragedy, heartbreak and healing: How 4 Canadians are building a positive legacy 20 years after 9/11

It's the first article that got to me the most. One of the Canadian firefighters said he wanted to rescue people... but realized that even among the dead, there were few actual bodies to find, that they were just "dust."


@SpacemanSpiff: Enya's "Only Time" was played over and over on CNN over the weeks following her appearance on Larry King Live. It's a song of reflection that's even inspired my writing (I've been working on a historical fantasy novel over the past three years and needed a funeral scene for one of the good characters; this song kept running through my head, and next thing I knew I was just sitting in front of the computer in tears).

 

[red_elk]

I don't think so, and I think the short answer for why is 'convection'.

There were already multiple broken windows on top floors, another hole wouldn't make much difference.

I believe the first potential rescue helicopter on the scene reported they saw the building begin to buckle or ripple already. Remember that the 2nd plane, being so low with such a direct hit, went down in under 1 hour.

Yes, it was clearly not enough time, especially for the 2-nd tower. And that antenna on top of the first one was a problem too, it had to be removed somehow.
Still, in hindsight it might be better than trying to send firefighters from below.

 

[Zardnaar]

There were already multiple broken windows on top floors, another hole wouldn't make much difference.


Yes, it was clearly not enough time, especially for the 2-nd tower. And that antenna on top of the first one was a problem too, it had to be removed somehow.
Still, in hindsight it might be better than trying to send firefighters from below.

Well it was unprecedented.

People didn't have access to the roof anyway. It wasn't designed for evacuations and the access points were locked.

 

[red_elk]

People didn't have access to the roof anyway. It wasn't designed for evacuations and the access points were locked.

They could drop off firefighters on the roof, to break in.

 

[Lexicus]

This was "shadowdale". I respected and considered a good person (still do). I wouldn't read much at all into "waiting to see which country will be turned into the worlds largest parking lot." I'd consider that a very off-handed remark, not to be taken literally ... just a reference to the likelihood that the U.S. would be doing something about this later. And it doesn't even point to any specific country or group.

I would mostly agree except he said it was a good thing that Bush was President, suggesting the parking lot thing would be good.

Anyway, there's no need to make a post justifying or defending what was said in that thread. I ain't here to judge people for what they posted 20 years ago (though, yes, I am judging what they said, I also do understand that people say things they don't mean in the heat of the moment)

I'm much more interested in the content of the posts than in identifying who said what and determining whether they are a bad person or whatever. I think we can say now, fairly definitively, with 20 years of hindsight, that we badly botched the response to 9/11 and made almost all the wrong decisions. And that thread is, at least IMO, a good illustration of why that happened. Whatever else you can say about 9/11, it succeeded beautifully in provoking the US into enormous wastes of resources and lives.

Wow. How did as much as 14 above the planes survive?

This was in the South Tower, and as I recall only one of the four stairways was left intact by the plane crash. 9-1-1 operators were telling people not to try to descend through possibly dangerous areas on their own, which obviously turned out to be a tragic miscalculation - but then, not even bin Laden expected the towers to collapse the way they did. Those 14 basically survived because they took the initiative to escape, I don't remember whether they just didn't call 9-1-1 or if they chose not to take the operators' advice.

Famously, one of those 14 was the guy who saw the plane coming at the building from his office.

There were already multiple broken windows on top floors, another hole wouldn't make much difference.

I mean that helicopters could barely approach the building due to the massive heat and choking, toxic smoke rising from the raging fires.

 

[red_elk]

I mean that helicopters could barely approach the building due to the massive heat and choking, toxic smoke rising from the raging fires.

I don't think they couldn't approach.
Helicopters have been used to extinguish fires in very complex situations, such as massive forest fires and exploded nuclear reactor.
If towers stood longer, I believe it might be a viable solution.

 

[Lexicus]

I don't think they couldn't approach.
Helicopters have been used to extinguish fires in very complex situations, such as massive forest fires and exploded nuclear reactor.
If towers stood longer, I believe it might be a viable solution.

https://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132172&page=1

Though helicopter rescues have flown hundreds of people to safety in other instances, aerial rescues would not have worked on Sept. 11, according to authorities.

"Well, there's high-rise fires and then there's the 11th," said Lt. Glen Daley, a pilot for the NYPD's aviation unit. Whereas a typical high-rise fire involves tremendous heat and smoke, he said, "add to that scenario hundreds of thousands of pounds of jet fuel as an accelerant to the fire. Multiply the heat factor … now you've got the worst of all possible situations playing themselves out."

Daley, who was at the command center during the World Trade Center attacks, added: "People may have in their mind's eye a view of this pristine roof, salvation … Those roofs were totally compromised and with thick, acrid, black smoke, intense heat coming up from the fire."

"One of the first calls I got was the people on the ground calling us to immediately check the roof," said Hayes.

At first he thought he saw a clear corner, "but it was still covered in smoke and there was numerous obstructions," he said. "I said, 'Captain, this is impossible. This is undoable. I can't see the roof.'"

 

[AmtrakQuebec]

Here are a few more examples of 9/11 from Canada's perspective:

First responders: Meet some of the Canadians who rushed to New York after the 9/11 attacks

How Gander's response to 9/11 changed the lives of its teenagers

Terror, tragedy, heartbreak and healing: How 4 Canadians are building a positive legacy 20 years after 9/11

It's the first article that got to me the most. One of the Canadian firefighters said he wanted to rescue people... but realized that even among the dead, there were few actual bodies to find, that they were just "dust."

@SpacemanSpiff: Enya's "Only Time" was played over and over on CNN over the weeks following her appearance on Larry King Live. It's a song of reflection that's even inspired my writing (I've been working on a historical fantasy novel over the past three years and needed a funeral scene for one of the good characters; this song kept running through my head, and next thing I knew I was just sitting in front of the computer in tears).

The response by Gander to the thousands of people from around the world that were stranded there when all the flights were grounded was made into an award-winning play...

Come from Away - Wikipedia

Even though I wouldn't want to live there, I've always said that people from the East coast of Canada are the friendliest/funniest people I've met in all my world travels.

 

[Zardnaar]

They could drop off firefighters on the roof, to break in.

Probably didn't have time. By the time the firefighters organize, get to helicopters etc the towers were already down.

 

[red_elk]

We should develop technological solutions for such cases. Like, some kind of drone or slow flying missile, which can be fired from the ground or helicopter and deliver crapload of liquid nitrogen inside. I don't know, weapon developers have been very successful in designing ways to kill people, may be they can use their creativity to develop something to save people instead.

These kind of events may happen again. Not necessarily because of terrorist attacks, it may be industrial accidents or disasters. I remember fire in Ostankino TV tower a year before 9/11. On 460 m. altitude, it continued for more than a day. Luckily there was no risk of collapse and all visitors were evacuated, but 3 servicemen were killed during firefight.