Remind me why Peaceman is leader again?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by julystork, Oct 29, 2013.

  1. whyidie

    whyidie Emperor

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    Same here, really liked multiple leaders from prior version (not sure which).
     
  2. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Emperor

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    There are certain leaders that are a staple of the game, but IMO excluding certain civs just so that they can be in game is not worth it. In this case, keeping Ghandi and excluding The Mughals, or adding Shaka just because he has always been there.

    By adding Brazil they got pass the taboo of adding post colonial civs (besides America), hopefuly in Civ VI we can get Vijayanagar, Mughals and if they desperetly need Ghandi so much a modern India civ.
     
  3. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

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    I would SO MUCH prefer Asoka The Great, builder of empire as powerful as Rome, over Gandhi, pacifist who never had political power :/

    Also, India with pacifist Gandhi is extremely boring.

    Personally if I would kick out Gandhi and put Asoka here, eliminated Shoshone to get Cahokia. Huns to get Golden Orde and Zulu to get Great Zimbabwe ;p
     
  4. whyidie

    whyidie Emperor

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    Gandhi was the original hypercube, he gathered and wielded power in a totally different way and had a huge impact on the affairs of the world. Amazing dude.

    Ashoka was something else too and in many ways was way ahead of his time. Would hate to include him at the expense of Gandhi though.

    Heck, having Ashoka in could actually serve as the "liberation" of Gandhi and could lead to some very interesting playstyles for him as he isn't the typical conquering civ.
     
  5. CELTICEMPIRE

    CELTICEMPIRE Zulu Conqueror

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    That's embarassing:blush: it shows you I haven't played this game in a while.

    Napoleon was left out of Civ 3, France was led by Joan of Arc.

    I got my first Civ game (3) when I was 10, I had no clue who Shaka or the Zulu were, the only people I recognized were Lincoln, Elizabeth I (an advantage of living in both the US and UK), and some ancient ones like Cleopatra. I became interested in history shortly after playing the game.
     
  6. Arcaian

    Arcaian Warlord

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    After having lived near Great Zimbabwe and written a couple of essays on it during my final year of schooling, I have NO idea why you would want to get rid of the Zulus for Great Zimbabwe.

    Yes, it was the largest 'city' in sub-Saharan Africa. But it was more than likely built by the Lemba people (more commonly known, if less politically correct as the Black Jews). The people who built it where then killed/subjugated by another, larger, less advanced tribe and nothing of its like was ever seen again in sub-Saharan Africa. The alternate theory is the larger tribe built it, but they ruled a large area at the time and instead of expanding Great Zimbabwe like you logically would they camped around it in their traditional buildings.

    If you included the rulers of Great Zimbabwe, you'd either have to make a civ that had a great technical boost at the start but slower tech rate throughout the game (pretty horrible) or someone who starts with a technical boost but has very weak early game units. Both are interesting ideas I guess, but not worthy of a civilization for them. Great Zimbabwe was not indicative of some large, city building power in sub-Saharan Africa; more likely it was an influence from the Middle East, through the Lemba people.
     
  7. Syailendra

    Syailendra Prince

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    yeah remove gandhi and peaceful trait of the indian! Put mahabharata style civ instead! Nepal can take the peaceful kind of civ! (be aware that this reply is written with dextromethrophan effect *cough cough*)
     
  8. PhroX

    PhroX Deity

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    Why *remove* Ghandi/India? Why not just add another civ?
     
  9. digrosz

    digrosz Dirty Frank

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    Yeah we ultimately have the USA as well as various Indian tribes... So why no India with Ghandi as well as the Mugals?
     
  10. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Emperor

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    Main difference being the US is not a blob civ like India is. The thing with India is that in order to add either Vijayanagar or Mughals they have to rework India to make up for it.

    This rework of India would sound unlikely before BNW and patches, however we already got another post colonial nation, and got a ravamped Germany (complete with UB), this gives me hope that if there is a third expansion they could rework India and add the Mughals.
     
  11. Dostayer

    Dostayer Warlord

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    I have to say that the inclusion of the Byzantine Empire with the Ottoman at the same time/the Arabs founding Damascus is much more irritating.
    Or the non-inclusion of Israel/Israelites and on the other hand the inclusion of the Celts, or the Huns(They were nothing more than a nomadic tribe who sacked whoever stood before them)!
    And TBH I'm kinda glad they left Mao out, he was responsible for a death of 70 million people and a lot of destruction.
    Atleast they didn't put the wife of Gahndi in charge of India.


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  12. TheLohoped

    TheLohoped Known today as TLPD-AVW

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    Byzantine Empire: 330 – 1204, 1261 – 1453
    Ottoman Empire: 1299–1923

    From 1299 to 1453 these two empires existed at the same time. They were comlete opposites in culture from each other with Byzantium being the ancient european christian power suffering from stagnation and Ottomans being the innovative muslim conquerors from the east. They both deserve a place in the game.

    And everyone should stop using "Istanbul and Constantinople are the same city" as the only reason to keep Byzantine Empire out of the game. It's just stupid. Not to mention that the Byzantines built the European part of the city and Otomans built the Asian part.
     
  13. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    This answers your question.
     
  14. seasnake

    seasnake Conquistador

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    I've long thought that Mughals should be in led by Akbar, with Gandhi more representing the modern India as we think of it today.

    Mughals make my short list of 7 civs we still need to fill out the corners of history and the earth, my list goes:

    Cherokee -- Led by Sequoyah, on of the greatest Amerindian nations of all time.
    Colombia -- Led by Simon Bolivar, representing the Gran Colombia that threw of the Spanish and about half of South America.
    Kongo -- Led by Nzinga Mbemba, a kingdom that ruled central Africa for 400 years or so.
    Hittites -- Led by Supplilama, a superpower in the ancient world that vied with Egypt and Assyria.
    Khazars -- Led by Sabriel, the pax Khazaria was a 200 year dynasty that secured central Asia. Little known fact, the Arabs in Baghdad had four great leaders they considered of equal dignity that together ruled the world superpowers: the Chinese Emperor, The Arab Caliph, the King of the Holy Roman Empire and the Khazar Khagan.
    Mughals -- led by Akbar, such an amazing people, amazing buildings like the Taj Mahal and armies with Cannon mounted on Elephants!
    Khmer -- led by Jaryavarman, the largest empire of Southeast Asia, builders of Angkor Wat, what's not to like?
     
  15. Dostayer

    Dostayer Warlord

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    The Byzantines considered themselves as roman, not as a different entity (although it was more Greek than Roman).

    But this thing is nothing when comparing to the inclusion of the Holy Roman Empire in my opinion.


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  16. Syailendra

    Syailendra Prince

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    err, mahabharata is indian national epic... Who says that i want to remove india? I want to show that ancient india is a bloody battleground. Bring a warmonger india with a maceman unit in ancient era, that would be a spinoff.
    Nepal is on indian subcontinent, well known, and also good to represent a pacifist civ, as india replacement.
     
  17. TheLohoped

    TheLohoped Known today as TLPD-AVW

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    Did Byzantines consider themselves Romans? Yes. Were they actually Romans? Not really. They were the unique mix of Roman, Greek and Eastern cultures. While Rome, Greece, Byzantium and Ottomans controlled the same territories (Balkans and Anatolia) and the last three are real pain to fit on TSL map, all of them had a unique culture which is most important for the choise of civs to include in the game.

    And I absolutely agree that the HRE civ in Civ4 was a ridiculous idea.
     
  18. PhroX

    PhroX Deity

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    But *India* is a modern concept - it really came out of the British Raj more than anyting else. There were states that ruled large parts of the subcontinent in the past, but it's not like China where there is a reasonably consistent line of different dynasties ruling the same state, it was completely different, often unconnected, empires ruling over some of the same territory.

    The people in the Mahabharata weren't Indian - again, this unified nationaility is a new thing - any more than Mughals were, or Mauryan's were, or the people of medieval Vijayanagara were, These were their own states, with their own histories and culture and deserve their own identity in the game, not being amalgamated into a modern identity based purely on the fact that they owned parts of the same territory, particularly given some of the "civilisations" that have made it into the game (*two* Amerind tribes, Polynesia, the Huns....).
     
  19. Gort

    Gort Emperor

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    I think Gandhi is popular as a leader since he has a clear "niche", same as Genghis Khan or Shaka. He's the dude who is significantly less likely to go to war with you, like how Genghis and Shaka are clear warmongers.
     
  20. Syailendra

    Syailendra Prince

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    but don't you think that a warmonger india is an interesting spinoff? For me it is as interesting as a cultural chinese of early Han. These people have a long written history filled with battle and peace, and sometimes a spinoff is surely needed.
    And if the people in mahabharata not indians, who would you called them then? I think that it is ok to call them indians, as they've already did the same thing to the maoris an majapahitans.
     

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