[NFP] Renaissance Era Policy Card Elimination Thread.

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Duke William of Normandy, Mar 25, 2021.

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  1. Mr. Salt

    Mr. Salt Warlord

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    Fixed it, thanks for the tip.
     
  2. AriaLyric

    AriaLyric Nonbinary | Peaceful Builder

    Joined:
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    Native Conquest (2)
    Colonial Offices (17)
    Invention (20)
    Frescoes (18)
    Machiavellianism (22)
    Wars of Religion (20)
    Simultaneum (20)
    Religious Orders (20)
    Logistics (24)
    Triangular Trade (21)
    Drill Manuals (22)
    Rationalism (23)
    Wisselbanken (21)
    Liberalism (20)

    Native Conquest (2) (5-3) I absolutely never use this card, even (or rather, especially) if I'm playing a Domination game I'm not gonna get enough out of this card for it to be worthwhile keeping it actively slotted in.
    Rationalism (23) (22+1) Fantastic synergy with the Great Scientists that boost the science yields of each type of Campus building, which I try to get every game I can, even if I'm not going for a Science victory - after all, if I'm only gonna get a few of them in a Culture game I might as well aim for the ones that allow me to stay competitive in science without plopping Campuses down everywhere, instead just putting them down in the places where they've got the most adjacency like by geothermal fissures, reefs, and lots of mountains.

    I'm also including an alphabetized version of the list of cards, in case people would rather use it over the current order like last elimination thread.
    Spoiler alphabetized version :

    Colonial Offices (17)
    Drill Manuals (22)
    Frescoes (18)
    Invention (20)
    Liberalism (20)
    Logistics (24)
    Machiavellianism (22)
    Native Conquest (2)
    Rationalism (23)
    Religious Orders (20)
    Simultaneum (20)
    Triangular Trade (21)
    Wars of Religion (20)
    Wisselbanken (21)
     
  3. Equilin

    Equilin King

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    Colonial Offices (14) (17-3) I don't think i find enough instances where this is useful honestly. Maybe if it gives housing......
    Drill Manuals (22)
    Frescoes (18)
    Invention (20)
    Liberalism (20) This one somehow does not have its effect described in the OP post. Please fix.
    Logistics (24)
    Machiavellianism (22)
    Native Conquest (2)
    Rationalism (23)
    Religious Orders (20)
    Simultaneum (20)
    Triangular Trade (21)
    Wars of Religion (20)
    Wisselbanken (22) (21+1) Ultimate Green Card. Make international trade routes not missing out on internal trade yields, and the alliance points is nice as some of the later alliance buffs can be very powerful.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
  4. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Colonial Offices (14)
    Drill Manuals (22)
    Frescoes (15) 18-3 Great People cards suck, and Great Artists are the 2nd worst of all great people (musicians being the worst). Thus this card is one of the worst of the worst. They only have value in cultural victory, and barely any if you're not Kongo or Sweden. You can probably delete every artist you have and your games may not even be 1 turn slower...
    Invention (20)
    Liberalism (20)
    Logistics (24)
    Machiavellianism (22)
    Native Conquest (2)
    Rationalism (23)
    Religious Orders (20)
    Simultaneum (20)
    Triangular Trade (21)
    Wars of Religion (20)
    Wisselbanken (23) 22+1 External Trade Routes are already scaling much better than internal by this point. Having it give the plusses of internal too AND applying to CS's you own means you can use it even in warmongering games and means ther'es no point trading internally anymore. Maybe if you're really poor and need to run Confederation it may not be run, but I would sacrifice a wildcard slot tbh.

    Also I'll let someone else finish off Native Conquest but I do want to bag on it. It's terrible, because combat strength scales nowhere near as fast as costs in this game. Killing a tank gives you 40 gold lol, and you will most likely not be able to do that with this card. It can be fun to hotswap it if you have a lot of air units and can wipe out a bunch every turn, but this is neither important nor gamechanging by any means.
     
  5. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

    Joined:
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    Colonial Offices (14)
    Drill Manuals (22)
    Frescoes (15)
    Invention (21) (20+1) - I actually think this card is very good after it got boosted a couple of patches ago. I don't use it every game, but I use it frequently and it can often allow me to completely dominate the AI in GE production, basically allowing me to recruit every GE in the game.
    Liberalism (20)
    Logistics (24)
    Machiavellianism (22)
    Native Conquest ELIMINATED - I've used this card a couple of time ... right after the game was released. And not since. Seems very unreliable, and if you are warring and want gold, you'll have better use of the pillage card and reduced maintenance cards.
    Rationalism (23)
    Religious Orders (20)
    Simultaneum (20)
    Triangular Trade (21)
    Wars of Religion (20)
    Wisselbanken (23)
     
  6. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    Colonial Offices (14)
    Drill Manuals (22)
    Frescoes (12) (15-3) It's pretty rare that I'm in situation where I'm saying "man, I really need to get more Great Artists". Usually I have a tough time getting the museums I need to store all their artworks, and every one you build is one less archeological museum you can have (which are much better IMO).
    Invention (21) I kind of think this is decent too, @kaspergm , at least in certain situations.
    Liberalism (20)
    Logistics (24)
    Machiavellianism (23) (22+1) Spies are expensive so that +50% production bonus alone makes this a pretty good card.
    Rationalism (23)
    Religious Orders (20)
    Simultaneum (20)
    Triangular Trade (21)
    Wars of Religion (20)
    Wisselbanken (23)
     
  7. Hellenism Salesman

    Hellenism Salesman Prince

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    Colonial Offices (14)
    Drill Manuals (22)
    Frescoes (12)
    Invention (21) I kind of think this is decent too, @kaspergm , at least in certain situations.
    Liberalism (20)
    Logistics (24)
    Machiavellianism (23)
    Rationalism (23)
    Religious Orders (20)
    Simultaneum (20)
    Triangular Trade (22) (21+1)
    Wars of Religion (20)
    Wisselbanken (20) (23-3)

    The only reason I downvote Wisselbanken is because it serves no purpose for a Domination player. Plus, it is geographically hindered, and sometimes your own domestic trade routes will just be better (especially when running Surplus Logistics!).

    Triangular Trade, on the other hand, is useful for all players, and circumvents the weakness of trading domestically. Say I'm playing a game where I have 10 trade routes going, each of them providing me with 10 gold. My trade routes are, in total, giving me 100 gold per turn. Not bad. But, as soon as I slot in this card, that 100 gold immediately becomes 140, with 10 extra faith on top of it. That's a 40% increase! And for players trading domestically, it can really help with gold generation, while still keeping your empire's interconnected web of food and production. I rarely unslot this card.
     
  8. Vargas1

    Vargas1 Prince

    Joined:
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    Gender:
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    Colonial Offices (11) (14-3)
    Drill Manuals (22)
    Frescoes (12)
    Invention (21)
    Liberalism (20)
    Logistics (24)
    Machiavellianism (23)
    Rationalism (23)
    Religious Orders (20)
    Simultaneum (20)
    Triangular Trade (22)
    Wars of Religion (21) (20+1)
    Wisselbanken (20)

    Wars of Religion (21) - Most of my games, I'll pick up a religion primarily for my own cities (usually involving work ethic). If I go to war with someone who founded a religion (or has been proselytized), this card gives a big boost.

    Colonial Offices (11) - I might slot this in for a few turns if I've just founded a new city and need to stabilize loyalty (while founding/capturing another city, for instance). But otherwise this is rarely used.
     
  9. kryat

    kryat King

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    Gender:
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    Colonial Offices (11)
    Drill Manuals (19) (22-3)
    Frescoes (12)
    Invention (21)
    Liberalism’s (20)
    Logistics (25) (24+1)
    Machiavellianism (23)
    Rationalism (23)
    Religious Orders (20)
    Simultaneum (20)
    Triangular Trade (22)
    Wars of Religion (21)
    Wisselbanken (20)

    Logistics - Arguably a top 3 card in the game. Faster builders, missionaries, settlers, engineers, and your entire army if you’ve been making friends. There’s a reason GC is seen as OP.

    Drill Manuals - Something needed a downvote. I’ve never been short on niter, and coal is usually easy enough to get. You’ll sometimes be pressed for coal plants, but you can usually colonize some far flung part of the map. Oil on the other hand...
     
  10. Mount Suribachi

    Mount Suribachi Prince

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    Colonial Offices (11)
    Drill Manuals (19)
    Frescoes (12)
    Invention (21)
    Liberalism (20)
    Logistics (25)
    Machiavellianism (23)
    Rationalism (23)
    Religious Orders (17)
    Simultaneum (20)
    Triangular Trade (23)
    Wars of Religion (21)
    Wisselbanken (20)

    Religious Orders 17 (20-3): If you need to be fighting the AI's Apostles at this point in the game, you're doing it wrong. You should already have won a religious victory by now, or at least you're in the Win Faster phase of the game, and the quickest way to win is by converting their Holy Cities. Any apostles the AI have at this point should be overwhelmed by your own apostle swarm produced by your own ginagerous faith production. I could maybe see a use for this as a defensive card against the AI's Apostle swarm if your religion is absolutely key to your victory strategy eg Work Ethic, but I have never used this card.

    Triangular Trade 23 (22+1): I had a bit of a think over this or Wisselbanken. I think objectively 2f 2p is better than 4g 1faith, but as @Hellenism Salesman points out, Triangular Trade is that bit more versatile in that it works anywhere, not just your allies (assuming you have any) or suzerains.

    Edit: as is customary, someone replied whilst I was typing
     
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  11. Leucarum

    Leucarum Emperor

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    Gender:
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    Colonial Offices (11)
    Drill Manuals (19)
    Frescoes (9)
    Invention (21)
    Liberalism (20)
    Logistics (25)
    Machiavellianism (23)
    Rationalism (23)
    Religious Orders (17)
    Simultaneum (20)
    Triangular Trade (23)
    Wars of Religion (21)
    Wisselbanken (21)

    Wisselbanken (20+1)
    is a consistently solod choice for a green card. I usually find that at the time it unlocks there is someone willing to be my ally. And it only needs 1 sucker for it to be worth its weight in production. Frescoes (12-3) even if you are heavily pushing great artists... There's a lot of competition for GW slots, both with art and archaeology.. Getting the right artists for theming means quality may even be better than quantity bete...
     
  12. lilnev!

    lilnev! Chieftain

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    Drill Manuals (19)
    Frescoes (9)
    Invention (22) (21+1) The first and often only Great Person policy that I use. The AI seems to neglect this (and perhaps building IZs in general), allowing me to quickly scoop up multiple GEs.
    Liberalism (20)
    Logistics (25)
    Machiavellianism (23)
    Rationalism (23)
    Religious Orders (17)
    Simultaneum (17) (20-3) I'll give it a kick down. I'm often without religion, and even if I've built Holy Sites, it's rare that they will have 15 pop or (less rare but still) 4 adjacencies.
    Triangular Trade (23)
    Wars of Religion (21)
    Wisselbanken (21)
     
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  13. InsidiousMage

    InsidiousMage Prince

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    Drill Manuals (16) (19-3) Another card I've rarely if ever used. Comes too late to be useful for Niter and I can either conquer or buy from the AI for my coal needs.
    Frescoes (9)
    Invention (22)
    Liberalism (20)
    Logistics (25)
    Machiavellianism (23)
    Rationalism (23)
    Religious Orders (17)
    Simultaneum (17)
    Triangular Trade (24) (23+1) The first useful trade policy card in the game.
    Wars of Religion (21)
    Wisselbanken (21)
     
  14. Mr. Salt

    Mr. Salt Warlord

    Joined:
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    Drill Manuals (17)
    Frescoes (9)
    Invention (22)
    Liberalism (20)
    Logistics (25)
    Machiavellianism (23)
    Rationalism (23)
    Religious Orders (17)
    Simultaneum (14)
    Triangular Trade (24)
    Wars of Religion (21)
    Wisselbanken (21)

    Drill Manuals: Personally, I use this quite often, although not in the Renaissance Era. It starts being useful when you're first building up Power infrastructure. Keeping all my cities powered is usually more than I can handle unless I get a lucky spawn or slot this card. It's not the best here, but doesn't deserve to be going quite yet. Also, like Logistics, it's a good option for a vacant military slot, because if you have plenty of Niter anyway you can make a quick buck off the AI.

    Simultaneum: Not fantastic for what it does. The mechanics of Religious Victory means you're going to be putting down a Holy Site pretty much everywhere you can, and it's likely that not enough of them will satisfy either of the conditions to matter.
     
  15. Josephias

    Josephias Emperor

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    Drill Manuals (17)
    Frescoes (9)
    Invention (22)
    Liberalism (20)
    Logistics (25)
    Machiavellianism (23)
    Rationalism (23)
    Religious Orders (18)
    Simultaneum (11)
    Triangular Trade (24)
    Wars of Religion (21)
    Wisselbanken (21)

    Religious Orders (17+1=18) Probably not on the top tier, but I'm giving them an upvote. Not everyone likes speed runs, and this card allows you for QoL if going for a late religious victory, wich does rely on Apostle Debates/Combats/Warfare/Stormmaking. Other than that, I agree it is not useful, but at this moment, it is still possible to recognize niche cards for what they do to an specific gameplay.
    Simultaneum (14-3=11), on the other hand, I agree it is not fantastic. Even if faith is a resource that can be scarce at times, if you plan to get faith you plant holy sites everywere, and often not in the premium spots (that go for campuses). In these situation
    Scripture might even still provide better yields.This is a card I rarely find reason to slot.
     
  16. TCBB

    TCBB Warlord

    Joined:
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    Drill Manuals (17)
    Frescoes (9)
    Invention (22)
    Liberalism (17) (20-3)
    Logistics (25)
    Machiavellianism (23)
    Rationalism (23)
    Religious Orders (18)
    Simultaneum (11)
    Triangular Trade (24)
    Wars of Religion (21)
    Wisselbanken (22) (21+1)

    Liberalism (17) (20-3) By the way @Duke William of Normandy , the description for this one is missing in the first post. It provides +1 amenity for every city with 2 speciality districts. That’s really not a lot: in the last thread, we eliminated Retainers fairly quickly and it’s arguably better than this. Compared to eg. Cahokia Mounds or luxuries, which don’t require a valuable economic slot to use, Liberalism isn’t anything special.

    Wisselbanken (22) (21+1) Always a fan of this, and then they went and buffed it. Great for growing new cities, great for powering up your Spaceport cities, and stacks great with Democracy too.
     
  17. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    Ah, shoot, you're right. Thanks for the info, it should be fixed now. Apparently, that's how bad it is: I forgot it bloody existed. :p
     
  18. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

    Joined:
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    What's wrong... people just constantly dropping policies from the list. Colonial Offices (11) disappeared for no reason.

    Colonial Offices (11)
    Drill Manuals (17)
    Frescoes (9)
    Invention (22)
    Liberalism (17)
    Logistics (25)
    Machiavellianism (23)
    Rationalism (20) (23 - 3) I have to downvote this once. It used to be an essential policy when the threshold are 10 population and 3 adjacency. Now it's 15 and 4, it's very hard to use and it's only 20-30% as good as it was prior to the nerf.
    Religious Orders (18)
    Simultaneum (11)
    Triangular Trade (25) (24 + 1) It's so good when a single policy provide you 60+ gold and 15+ faith.
    Wars of Religion (21)
    Wisselbanken (22)
     
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  19. The Highwayman

    The Highwayman Prince

    Joined:
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    582
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Colonial Offices (8) (11-3) Map dependent with lackluster yields. The + loyalty is rarely needed, even during conquest. The growth is potentially a negative.
    Drill Manuals (17)
    Frescoes (9)
    Invention (22)
    Liberalism (17)
    Logistics (26) (25+1) A godly policy card regardless of civ or win con. Great for offense as it allows troops to fast travel from one conquered city to the next. Great for defense for all the obvious reasons. Great for civilian units (especially builders) in all circumstances. S tier card.
    Machiavellianism (23)
    Rationalism (20)
    Religious Orders (18)
    Simultaneum (11)
    Triangular Trade (25)
    Wars of Religion (21)
    Wisselbanken (22)
     
  20. canadamufc

    canadamufc Chieftain

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    Colonial Offices (8)
    Drill Manuals (18) (17+1) It isn't the best card, but it shouldn't go yet. You can't tell me you have always had coal or niter in 100% of your games, right? Coal Power Plants are the best Power Plant in the game, so you're gonna want as much coal as possible to fuel those. The niter side of this card is less important, but it still has some uses.
    Frescoes (6) (9-3) Rarely I need more Great Artists, I usually need more Art Museums instead. Also, Archeological Museums are much better because they are easier to theme and obtain. In my experience, Humanism is a hard civic to boost as well.
    Invention (22)
    Liberalism (17)
    Logistics (26)
    Machiavellianism (23)
    Rationalism (20)
    Religious Orders (18)
    Simultaneum (11)
    Triangular Trade (25)
    Wars of Religion (21)
    Wisselbanken (22)
     
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