1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Report says Tax Breaks hurt the French Economy

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by carmen510, Sep 5, 2011.

  1. carmen510

    carmen510 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    8,124
    Location:
    NESing Forums
    France 24: Tax Breaks hurt French Economy, report says

    Do you think such tax breaks and exemptions should be axed, in order to increase government revenues and eliminate loopholes?

    If these tax breaks and exemptions are removed, how will this affect the French economy?

    Should the United States conduct similar reviews of tax exemptions? What do you think would come out of such a report? Do you see any similarities between the situation in France and the situation in the United States, in relation to government revenues and public finances?
     
  2. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Messages:
    45,355
    Location:
    US of A
    I expect you'd find similar effects in any economy. All these tax breaks are popular because people and companies can lobby for them more easily than a government outlay. And popular with politicians because they can easily do people favors without "spending public money". And it can all be justified under the fake "letting people keep their own". But there really isn't much reason to believe many of these things would be effective for the economy as a whole. You could probably wipe out nearly all loopholes and lower rates a bit and get better results.
     
  3. Defiant47

    Defiant47 Peace Sentinel

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    5,602
    Location:
    Canada
    This post just oozes wisdom.
     
  4. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Messages:
    30,387
    Why does everything have to be about "the economy". how about the citizen whose money it was to begin with? Justify the absolute necessity of every single tax or abolish that tax.
     
  5. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Messages:
    45,355
    Location:
    US of A
    The public justifies the expenditures through who they elect. Given the level of expenditures the voter decides on, taxes have to equal that.
     
  6. Tahuti

    Tahuti Writing Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    9,492
    Gender:
    Male
    Don't remind me. In the Netherlands, we have a heavy mortgage interest rate reduction which is hugely popular, despite it increases housing prices and allows the highest incomes to deduct so much they have less tax liabilities than lower incomes.

    Democracy can be such a ******** political system if the voters are uninformed enough.
     
  7. Defiant47

    Defiant47 Peace Sentinel

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    5,602
    Location:
    Canada
    How is it their money to begin with? If a person earns a certain amount of money under a capitalist system, it is not necessarily rightfully deserved.

    Consider a shopkeeper who sells trout. If demand is such that he sells 10 trout, he makes $100. If demand is such that he sells 12 trout, he makes $120. Does that mean that his $100 or $120 is rightfully deserved? Is merit determined by certain things that could easily be named "random chance"?

    What about a second shopkeeper who wants to open the same business, but gets to it just a bit too late, and is now out of a job - at least for a week or two. Does the first shopkeeper rightfully deserve the entire $1000-$1500 he has more than the second shopkeeper?

    Consider two factory workers doing the same jobs, but in different areas earning different amounts. Are the exact sums they make rightfully theirs to begin with, regardless of the amount?

    How about a corporation that pays tons in taxes to a government that provides various services that ensure political stability, economic stability, military protection, and so on. Is the amount paid in taxes the corporation's to begin with? Or is it an appropriate levy for services rendered?
     
  8. Tahuti

    Tahuti Writing Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    9,492
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, from a detailed picture no. Because - as you pointed out - there is a certain amount of chance involved. However, by the big picture, it usually is. If certain economic activities do not yield a profit and only loss, no matter how hard you try, you might want to reconsider what you are doing. And that is basically why capitalism is usually the best system, just not the perfect system.
     
  9. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    22,753
    Location:
    Wherever my name is posted
    I agree with the first sentence.

    I'd change "Absolute" necessity to "Reasonable" necessity. Technically we don't NEED any government to exist, but life would be far worse.

    I think a better idea is "If the tax isn't both fair and reasonably necessary to run a small but efficient government, eliminate it."
     
  10. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    17,342
    Location:
    the golf course
    tax breaks hurt the economy or the treasury?
     
  11. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Freedonia
    Please stop using the terms "small and big government." They're meaningless buzzwords.
     
  12. Leonel

    Leonel Breakfast Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    10,348
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    In a way, it kind of makes sense. Say there's Company A and Company B. Company A gets a tax break while Company B doesn't. Since Company A gets to keep more of their initial profits, they don't have to work as hard as Company B, who has to work harder to keep their profits.

    Company B has to hire more people to make the same profits as Company A, thus putting more spending money into the hands of people to spend money on products other companies produce, whereas Company A can get away with hiring fewer people, thus putting less spending money into people who'll buy less goods that'll result in less sales for other companies.
     
  13. Quackers

    Quackers The Frog

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Messages:
    10,282
    Location:
    Great Britain
    When are theese stupid plebs gonna understand whats good for them, huh? They NEED a 90% tax rate on there income they just don't know it yet! :rolleyes:
     
  14. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Messages:
    45,355
    Location:
    US of A
    You only have the ability to make that money because of what the government does. So since you would not be making that money without the government, why don't you accept that you have to pay for the government?



    Either or both, depending on which you are talking about. A lot of targeted tax cuts can distort the economy in ways that have negative results.
     
  15. Dreadnought

    Dreadnought Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    6,896
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    From the article:

    100%-19%-47% = 34%.

    So, 34% of the tax breaks were > scarcely useful? And 47% were scarcely useful? Unless my math is wrong, then these tax breaks seem more useful than not useful.

    What's this article lobbying for, anyway? From what I can tell, the statistics seem to favor tax breaks.
     
  16. Tahuti

    Tahuti Writing Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    9,492
    Gender:
    Male
    Tax breaks hardly ever make any economic sense: They only exist to appease popular opinion and nothing more. Period
     
  17. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    22,753
    Location:
    Wherever my name is posted
    This is simply and fundamentally untrue. Unless you assume that Nazi Germany had the same size government as the United Kingdom during that period, there are definitely differences.

    :lol:

    But people won't put the bill on themselves, they'll put it on other people. Generally the rich. Unless they are rich, then they sometimes want to put it on the poor.
     
  18. Quackers

    Quackers The Frog

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Messages:
    10,282
    Location:
    Great Britain
    When did I say otherwise?
    Seriously you gotta stop the strawmanning, anything less then Cutlass level taxation and spending and regulation = somalian anarchy.
     
  19. carmen510

    carmen510 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    8,124
    Location:
    NESing Forums
    I'm guessing that "scarcely useful" would mean the amount of money "spent" produced a negligible benefit which did not justify the costs.
     
  20. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    13,275
    Location:
    Facing my computer.
    This from the guy who wrote
    Oh the irony.
     

Share This Page