Republic yes or no?

[Zwelgje]

We need to make a decision:
We've got the knowledge of republic and now we'll have to decide when we are going to use it.
With a few rehomings we can easily enter republic soon. The next oedo year is 940AD and therefore we need to revolt in 920AD.
Will we do it now or will we do it later?

Decide!

 

[Elsaak]

I think it's hardly time to go.

 

[GaryNemo]

We have Mike's, which is all we really need. On top of that, we already have Leonardo built. It is only necessary to have the Caravans nearly ready, but we have Leonardo already built.

To my knowledge, the AI is no longer stressing us by building a wonder we want. So we can double our Trade, our Caravan payoffs.

 

[heliogabalus]

Let's do it! Let's be a Republic! Then again... Aren't we already a democracy?

 

[Serutan]

Since it looks like the support issues are under control,
I say we go for it, and really blind the AI with science!

 

[naervod]

Go for it!

 

[Octavian X]

I will take Gary's word and assume the support problem doesn't look too bad anymore. I think I will vote a hesitant 'yes'

 

[Rout]

No! conquer! armies! death! Smash! pillage! other fight related words!
Well alright then but only as the vote is lost 11:2 at the mo.
sob

I suppose we can support an army yes? YES?

 

[Jayne]

Rout - I'm with you! I must admit I never use Republic. I always find it does more harm than good. But maybe I just don't know how to use it properly!

 

[Zwelgje]

Question:
Why do we want republic?

Answer:
The way we've been fighting wars until now has been quite civilised.
No huge armies killing eachother but diplos that incite revolts using money. This tactic has been very succesful and I think we will use it more often in the future. For this tactic to work we need money, lots of it. That's why we want money because it gives us more money.

And another thing: science output is higher because of higher trade so this really doubles the benefit of republic.

 

[Rout]

Okay, you guys know what you are doing with Republic, ive never used it (as communism on the PS is better - no corruption).
I think we should keep the 'civilised' element - it will help us to greatly extend our forces, resource free.

 

[GaryNemo]

Glad you agree, General. It will work, and we DO NEED a General. You will have your Knights. I still wonder about the Catapults, to storm the Trondheim Walls - has anyone rechecked Funxus recent calculation regarding the effectiveness of Crusaders?

A few key questions, General Rout (and Citizens, of course!)
The Elysium legion, W of Dellham, is available. Vikings or Indians?
Uppsala Temple in 6, then what? Catapult?
Ship near BB w Legion, Crusader & Dip, land where?
NorthWest Ship, recall to pickup Crusader & Dip at Banana Bay?

And I really like the idea of bribing an Army of Nones

 

[Zwelgje]

I think I know the outcome of this poll.
I've done some work on which units should be rehomed. There were no issues on not being able to support the units or settlers but I do think we need to rehome a bunch of units to let them be supported by the city they are in. Suggested rehomings are in bold below:

(just to clarify: when I say rehome phalanx I mean: rehome phalanx to the city it is in at the moment)

Regia Civitas Size: 6 Happy/content/angry: 3/2/1
Food: 12 (surplus: 1)
Production: 8 Support: 0
Supported: phalanx, legion (Elysium), archers
Present: phalanx (Little Nemo), archers, phalanx
rehome phalanx

Elysium Size: 4 Happy/content/angry: 1/3/0
Food: 8 (surplus: 2) grows in 4 turns
Production: 5 Support: 0
Supported: phalanx, legion (near Hipsheim)
Present: knights (NONE), phalanx, legion (Regia Civitas)
rehome legion
legion near Hipsheim, rehome in Hipsheim

Thunderfalls Size: 4 Happy/content/angry: 1/2/1
Food: 9 (surplus: 2)
Production: 4 Support: 0
Supported: warriors, settlers (near Hipsheim), crusaders (near Banana Bay)
Present: warriors

Civvium Size: 4 Happy/content/angry: 1/2/1
Food: 8 (surplus: 2) grows in 4 turns
Production: 7 Support: 0
Supported: warriors (2), trireme (near Bactra)
Present: warriors (2)

Bedfont Lakes Size: 2 Happy/content/angry: 1/0/1
Food: 4 (surplus: 0)
Production: 5 Support: 0
Supported: -
Present: -

Little Nemo Size: 2 Happy/content/angry: 1/0/1
Food: 5 (surplus: 2)
Production: 3 Support: 0
Supported: warriors (Khorsabad), phalanx (Regia Civitas), settlers (near Little Nemo)
Present: -
Building: settlers (14 turns)

Gabba Gabba Size: 2 Happy/content/angry: 1/0/1
Food: 4 (surplus: 0)
Production: 5 Support: 0
Supported: warriors (near Bactra)
Present: -

Beast Flats Size: 2 Happy/content/angry: 1/1/0
Food: 4 (surplus: 0)
Production: 7 Support: 0
Supported: archers, trireme (near Bactra)
Present: archers

Penguin Flats Size: 3 Happy/content/angry: 2/0/0
Food: 6 (surplus: 1)
Production: 3 Support: 0
Supported: phalanx, warriors (near Civvium - on the pole)
Present: phalanx
Building: settlers (8 turns)

Khorsabad Size: 1 Happy/content/angry: 0/0/0
Food: 3 (surplus: 1)
Production: 1 Support: 0
Supported: settlers (founding a city in 2)
Present: warriors (Little Nemo)
Building: settlers (9 turns)
rehome warriors in Khors south

Khors. south
Food: 2 (surplus: 4)
Production: 2 Support: 0
Supported: -
Present: -
Building: archers (13 turns)

Bactra
Food: 2 (surplus: 3) grows in 1 turn
Production: 2 Support: 0
Supported: phalanx
Present: phalanx

Eboracum Size: 3 Happy/content/angry: 1/2/0
Food: 7 (surplus: 1)
Production: 5 Support: 0 (Waste: 1)
Supported: archers, trireme (near Banana Bay), settlers (near York Downs)
Present: archers, warriors (Neuma)

New Octavia Size: 2 Happy/content/angry: 1/1/0
Food: 5 (surplus: 3) grows in 5 turns
Production: 3 Support: 0
Supported: settlers (near New Octavia)
Present: Legion (Mordhiemia)
Building: settlers (11 turns)
rehome legion

Mordhiemia Size: 3 Happy/content/angry: 1/2/0
Food: 6 (surplus: 3) grows in 3 turns
Production: 4 Support: 0
Supported: phalanx, legion (New Octavia)
Present: phalanx
Building: settlers (1 turns)

Marl Downs Size: 4 Happy/content/angry: 1/2/1
Food: 8 (surplus: 1)
Production: 4 Support: 1
Supported: phalanx, archers (York Downs), trireme (near York Downs), legion (near Mordhiemia)
Present: legion (Neuma), phalanx
Building: settlers (10 turns)
rehome legion

York Downs Size: 2 Happy/content/angry: 1/1/0
Food: 4 (surplus: 3)
Production: 3 Support: 0
Supported: -
Present: archers (Marl Downs)
Building: settlers (10 turns)
rehome archers

Neuma Size: 2 Happy/content/angry: 1/0/1
Food: 5 (surplus: 1)
Production: 3 Support: 0
Supported: warriors (Eboracum), legion (Marl Downs), settlers (near Castle Jayne)
Present: -

Castle Jayne Size: 3 Happy/content/angry: 1/2/0
Food: 7 (surplus: 3) grows in 3 turns
Production: 4 Support: 0
Supported: phalanx, archers (The Udal), settlers (near Elysium)
Present: phalanx
Building: settlers (8 turns)

Legendary City Size: 4 Happy/content/angry: 1/2/1
Food: 8 (surplus: 2)
Production: 8 Support: 0 (Waste: 1)
Supported: phalanx, archers (Cymru Straits), trireme (near Cadiz)
Present: phalanx, archers (Monk's Town)
rehome archers

Monk's Towne Size: 3 Happy/content/angry: 1/1/1
Food: 6 (surplus: 3) grows in 3 turns
Production: 4 Support: 0
Supported: archers (Legendary City)
Present: -
Building: settlers (2 turns)

Dellham Size: 3 Happy/content/angry: 1/2/0
Food: 7 (surplus: 2)
Production: 6 Support: 1
Supported: legion (near Banana Bay - war unit), archers (Cymru Straits), archers, settlers (near Dellham)
Present: archers
Building: catapult (6 turns)

Fort Anarchy Size: 2 Happy/content/angry: 1/1/0
Food: 4 (surplus: 1)
Production: 5 Support: 0 (Waste: 1)
Supported: phalanx (Banana Bay), phalanx
Present: phalanx

Routskilde Size: 2 Happy/content/angry: 1/1/0
Food: 4 (surplus: 3) grows in 5 turns
Production: 4 Support: 0 (Waste: 1)
Supported: crusaders (Banana Bay - war unit)
Present: crusaders (NONE)

Reneaux Size: 4 Happy/content/angry: 1/2/1
Food: 9 (surplus: 3)
Production: 6 Support: 1
Supported: knights (near Hladir - war unit), warriors, settlers (near Fort Anarchy), phalanx
Present: phalanx, warriors

Banana Bay Size: 1 Happy/content/angry: 1/0/0
Food: 4 (surplus: 1)
Production: 2 Support: 0
Supported: archers, settlers (near Reneax and Banana Bay)
Present: crusaders (Routskilde - war unit), phalanx (Fort Anarchy - to Viking Harbor), archers
Building: catapult (20 turns)

The Udal Size: 1 Happy/content/angry: 1/0/0
Food: 3 (surplus: 3) grows in 1 turn)
Production: 2 Support: 0
Supported: trireme (near Routskilde), settlers
Present: archers (Castle Jayne), settlers
Building: settlers (20 turns)
rehome archers after growth next turn

Hipsheim Size: 1 Happy/content/angry: 1/0/0
Food: 2 (surplus: 2)
Production: 2 Support: 0
Supported: -
Present: -

Cymru Straits Size: 2 Happy/content/angry: 1/1/0
Food: 4 (surplus: 3)
Production: 3 Support: 0
Supported: -
Present: archers (Dellham and Legendary City)
Building: trireme (1 turns)
rehome both archers


Lindow Moss Size: 1 Happy/content/angry: 1/0/0
Food: 3 (surplus: 2)
Production: 3 Support: 0
Supported: settlers (near Lindow Moss)
Present: archers (Uppsala)
Building: settlers (14 turns)
rehome archers

Uppsala Size: 3 Happy/content/angry: 2/0/0
Food: 6 (surplus: 0)
Production: 5 Support: 0
Supported: archers (Lindow Moss), legion, crusaders (Viborg - war unit)
Present: legion

Viborg Size: 3 Happy/content/angry: 1/2/0
Food: 7 (surplus: 2)
Production: 3 Support: 0
Supported: warriors, legion, settlers (near Uppsala)
Present: crusaders (Uppsala - war unit), warriors, legion

Cadiz Size: 2
Food: 4 (surplus: 3)
Production: 4 Support: 0
Supported: pikemen
Present: pikemen

 

[Zwelgje]

...and of course I forgot a few things...
I rechecked my work and then found Banana Bay is supporting 2 settlers which after republic will cause hunger. The settler near Reneaux should be rehomed, perhaps the best city to rehome is Castle Jayne.
There is a warrior in Eboracum that needs to be rehomed there.

I hope I got them all now.

 

[GaryNemo]

Having studied this, I believe the majority of the rehomings are not necessary, or harmful. I do agree with rehoming the LN Warrior in Khors South, but the rest of these can wait for discussion. It turns out, all of these units have been planned for 500 years by previous administrations, and are ok asis.

Remember, a unit guarding another city does not cause unhappiness. Also, we can always rehome it to the city it occupies later, it is not necessary to do so now.

The critical problem is Banana Bay, resolved by founding Lone Bison on the Teeny Island.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Points I noticed if we were to switch to Republic....

Note: This is as of the 860 AD save and some of these issues may have already been discussed to resolution.

Banana Bay: must either re-home a settler or build a city with one. Even after that, it will have no shields for production.

The Udal: Will have no shields for production.

Monk's Towne: If finishes settler, will be short food

Viborg: Will have no shields for production.

Mordheimia: If finishes settler, will be short food and will have no shields for production.

Marl Downs: Currently two military units out side of city.

Neuma: Will have no shields for production.

That's after a quick run through of the save.

 

[Zwelgje]

OK, the rehomings apparently aren't necessary.
In Civ1 it is but not in Civ2, didn't know that....Maybe I would be better in playing the Civ1 demo-game!

Thanks to Gary for pointing this out.

It's especially nice for RC to keep the phalanx from LN as it's one more shield for a city that can use some extra shields being our capitol!