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Republican controlled senate means...?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Timsup2nothin, Nov 5, 2014.

  1. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    So the subcommittee for science is going to have a potato chairing it or something? Isn't it right now being chaired by pretty much a potato + 1?
     
  2. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Veteran of 1000 psycic wars

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    How is that suddenly a slam dunk when it wasn't before? House plus Senate is no more capable of producing a law on their own than the House was by itself. Instead of dying quietly in a Senate committee it gets loudly vetoed and Obama uses his position as President to get an audience and his oratory skills to explain why it got vetoed. Republicans get nothing but egg on their faces and long for the day when things just died quietly.
     
  3. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    It's part of the standard recipe for election night speeches. Look at what they were talking about after 2008, 2010, and 2012.

    Committees determine what legislation goes to the floor for consideration by the full Senate, so there are consequences on the procedural side. The regular appointment process is likely to be gridlocked for a long while.

    The loonies might try, but I think leadership will keep them on a short leash by refusing to bring it up for a vote. There's been sporadic talk about it, though, we'll see how it goes.

    ...you are aware that the immigration bill ("amnesty") was passed the Senate and held up in the House, right? It's Boehner that holds the keys on that one, not McConnell.

    And that big bad "Obamacare" was the GOP position on healthcare all through the 90s, and was publicly supported by Republican senators like Lincoln Chaffee, Bob Dole, Orrin Hatch, and Chuck Grassley, the last two who are still in the Senate and one was a presidential candidate. That's why Romney was on the map in 2008, because he got conservative healthcare reform done. The foreign policy he has adopted is right in line with the neocon policies of the Bush administration, whether on spying, drones, timetables for wars, and general interventionism. On all kinds of social issues he has been a lagging and not a leading indicator, like his support tacit acceptance for gay marriage. Tax policy is just another straw, as is the banker-friendly bailout scheme you would think he could have impacted. Obama ran as a progressive and governed as DLC, and for the life of me I can't figure out why people don't see this unless they don't want to.

    Like, your post doesn't acknowledge history before 2011. It's kinda awesome in that way.

    I noticed you took out the comment on spillage rates, so if you don't want to go there I won't. I will say that I think you misunderstand the intentions of the Keystone opponents.

    I don't think he will veto it.
     
  4. jackelgull

    jackelgull An aberration of nature

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    That seems like a bad move on Obama's part.


    Edit- referring to vetoing the pipeline.
     
  5. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    It depends on the spin.
    And the calculus of how much weaker Obama got from the election results.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/11/05/gop-wave-could-turn-spigot-on-keystone-xl-pipeline/

    I'd say McConnell already has a plan on how to spin the veto.
    And that he thinks it would be a net benefit for Republicans.

    If he is wrong and this election didn't weaken Obama's support as much as he thought, ya, it'd backfire on the Republicans.
    But I'm not sure how much damage they'd incur after just winning an election cycle.
    It seems like the safest first move for them to test the waters.

    Obama's speech after the veto would be key to which way it goes, ya.
    I hope someone is already writing it just in case.
     
  6. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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    Laugh, but it's roughly that kind of comment that may well have cost the Democrats the Iowa Senate seat.
     
  7. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Veteran of 1000 psycic wars

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    We're back at that 'audience and oratory skills' issue. Polls show two thirds of Americans support the project is pretty easily offset by polls that would likely show that 90% of Americans could tell you everything they know about the project in two sentences or less. Those two measures of the public's will in the matter remain true as long as the project is left for dead in some musty committee chamber in the Senate.

    If it becomes the hot button topic of a standoff between the congress and the President the pros and the cons become much more widely known. No one can match the President's ability to generate air time. The leadership of the Congress can get on Meet the Press, the President can hold a press conference with network coverage in prime time. Like him or hate him, Obama is one of the great orators of our time. Who is going to speak for the other side? Mitch McConnell? So I think that it is pretty predictable how the public's understanding of the project will be molded, should it come to that.
     
  8. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    But somehow Agenda 21 and nullification didn't. Strange world we live in.
     
  9. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Ah, thanks for taking the time to reply to all my stuff :love:

    McConnell can offer juicier bribes than Reid could now that he's Senate Majority Leader.
    Amnesty will inevitably pass after being brought up for the 1000th time, just like every Democrat idea.

    http://www.healthreformvotes.org/congress/roll-call-votes/s2009-396
    Both Orrin Hatch and Chuck Grassley voted no.
    It passed without a single GOP vote.

    Romneycare should be a state choice, not something imposed on everyone by the feds.
    And Romney was right about Russia being the main threat, wasn't he? :crazyeye:


    Politicians' view on this "evolve" all the time :)
    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/timeline-of-obamas-evolving-on-same-sex-marriage/

    Wish I could argue here, but it sounds right to me.

    Thanks :D
    I'm just trying to think like the Republicans so I can figure out what they'll do next.



    I've never understood the opposition to Keystone.
    It's like turning down a winning lotto ticket.

    We don't have to spend $1 trillion invading the middle east to maintain the flow either.
     
  10. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    With the Presidential campaigns about to start getting into gear I don't think the Ted Cruzes and Rand Pauls of the world are going to be very interested in helping McConnel put reasonable bills on the desk of the President.
     
  11. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Yes, Obama is a genius orator.
    Yes, the Republicans speak using nobodies.
    Yes, Americans top out at 2 sentences on Keystone.

    They also love the ideas of:
    1)More
    2)Oil
    3)From Canada

    It takes 1000 words to overcome 1 emotion, so I hope he has the speech ready now.
     
  12. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Question:
    I know that Boehner has had a devil of a time trying to keep the House under control and get the Teahadists to work with Establishment Republicans, but what about McConnell in the Senate? Will he have as hard of a time corralling the GOP senators as Boehner has in the House?
     
  13. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Veteran of 1000 psycic wars

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    These are the kind of sound bite arguments that easily carry the day...when something is pretty much a non-issue dead in some subcommittee somewhere. People know two sentences worth of 'information', and those are them.

    But when it gets out in the public eye it will take more than a couple soundbites to fill the landscape of 'everything people know about the subject', and the person filling in that landscape is going to be someone opposed to the project...assuming Keystone is a battleground between the President and congress.

    Maybe Anti-logic is right and he wouldn't veto it, though I don't see why he wouldn't. If he wasn't going to veto it I would think it would already have crossed his desk and been done.
     
  14. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Yeah, I keep reading on reddit that the Republicans didn't deserve to win, because they suck, but that the Democrats didn't deserve to win either, because they either have no idea what they're doing or.. they didn't even really want to win.

    But how is pointing out that the guy who is in charge of the committee that gives the president advice on science knows nothing about science, a bad thing? Would it have been better if I didn't compare him to a potato? I don't even know if he's still in charge, but last time I heard about it, all sorts of doofuses were in charge of things that they know nothing about.
     
  15. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    If Keystone is the GOP's idea of a big issue, then there really won't be much that gets done in the next couple of years. Hopefully, the GOP will attempt an impeachment so as to salvage the President's post-office approval ratings.
     
  16. Archbob

    Archbob Ancient CFC Guardian

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    Try to repeal Obamacare about 100 times.
     
  17. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    Or get to the bottom of the birther issue.
     
  18. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    I try.

    The compromise bill that went through the Senate garnered well over 60 votes including 14 Republicans, it's been in the House's court and it hasn't been brought up by Boehner because of the disagreement between the House leadership and the teapartiers on it.

    McConnell is more relevant for other stuff, not so much on immigration.

    I was referring to them in the 90s when they were ranting against Hillarycare. That decade still exists.

    However, the history is more mixed on the ACA in 2009-2010 because they were also for it before they were against it. The two still in Congress, Hatch and Grassley, along with some other random GOP members, were involved in the early drafting because Baucus kept bringing them in. Olympia Snowe cast a vote for the ACA in committee before voting against it on the floor. You are also counting Arlen Specter as a Democrat for your analysis, and he had just switched parties before the vote.

    And I'm not even getting to the books and papers published by the right wing think tanks like the American Enterprise Institute and Heritage Foundation that came up with this scheme in the first place. The history of the ACA is thoroughly on the right wing's side.

    I'm missing the relevance of this comment. My argument is on the continuity from Bush to Obama.

    My point is Obama was drug along on this, he wasn't an out-in-front leader like he's been made out to be.

    The lottery ticket isn't winning if it causes more damage in the long run. And that Canadian oil is of the particularly dirty and difficult tar sands variety, it ain't as simple as you are making it out to be. It's not a binary choice. We can choose neither and do something else.
     
  19. Whomp

    Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Retired Moderator

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    I think it will be more along the lines of committee oversight and hearings on agency reports like what the fed is actually transmitting on the balance sheet and how employment data was actually gathered over the last election cycle.
    Keystone will be fast tracked.

    I would suggest the chances are good that a Japanese free trade agreement gets done in 10-12 months. The UAW and Ford won't be able to hold up the tariff on light duty vehicles that's been a huge sticking point.

    Typical of Washington, bring out news on a day when news media is not paying attention (yesterday) to anything but the election. The commerce dept.
    announced they won't require permits to export condensates...crude is coming.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  20. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    If your house is on fire, is doing nothing not a bad thing?
     

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