TravisATWA
Chieftain
Thank you for fixing that broken ass mechanic. The new RA's actually make sense and are a welcome change.
Research Agreements
- Thread starter TravisATWA
- Start date
glaivemaster
Prince
Seconding this. Nice to hear that it's much improved, but being cryptic is hardly fair on us
TravisATWA
Chieftain
Well you can only RA with people you have a DOF with, and instead of giving you the average of available techs its based upon your actual beaker output. If you check Maddjinn's video on youtube showing the tech tree he explains it at the end.
Seconding this. Nice to hear that it's much improved, but being cryptic is hardly fair on us
I endorse this post.
glaivemaster
Prince
Aha, thank you. And there's a change to the Great Scientist as well? Or are they just spawning less or something now?
blackcatatonic
Queen of Meme
Can anyone confirm whether the AI is just as likely as before to break RAs?
TravisATWA
Chieftain
The great scientists also changed. They are also based upon your actual science output. Again check out that video i mentioned. Just find Maddjinn's youtube channel
It also seems to be the case that even free Great People have an impact on the threshold of Great Person Points (GPP) required for the next Great Person to be spawned. Previously 'free' Great People didn't count towards the threshold, in G&K they now count as if they had been naturally spawned which means the threshold of GPP required increases with the arrival of every Great Person, not just the ones that spawn naturally. The result being that there's a reduction in the frequency of Great People spawning.
glaivemaster
Prince
Hm, that hardly counts as 'free' anymore then, but fair cop. As for the video, I'll definitely check it out when I get the chance to - just not in a place conducive to watching videos right now. Thanks for the information anyway. I can't wait until Friday
I assume that even if the AI wasn't explicitly made less likely to DoW while engaged in an RA, it happens less often anyways since 1) breaking DoFs less is less common and 2) early reports indicate a somewhat less stabby, mildly more predictable AI.
blackcatatonic
Queen of Meme
That's what I thought; although of course if you DoF and then a few turns later sign an RA the AI could still technically DoW after the DoF expires but while the RA is still in place.
jjkrause84
King
The changes are very nice, but I'm worried that they lean more towards helping already-advanced civs to the detriment of civs trying to catch up. In my opinion RAs and GSs should either be 'neutral' or lean more towards helping civs catch up, if that makes sense (i.e. both civs get identical number of beakers from a RA).
While it'll probably take some time to get a definitive answer to this, I would imagine that the changes will reduce the possibility of a runaway tech Civ. Teching overall appears to be slower given the changes to the tech tree (there are far fewer beelines that can be made) and with RAs and GSs now only giving beakers the possibility of grabbing Stealth in under 200 turns seems more than a little improbable.
I think you're right, I'm just not convinced that it's as big a problem as it would have been pre-G&K.
jjkrause84
King
I hope you're right, but I don't see how giving the more advanced civ more beakers than the less advanced civ will help. It's also somewhat illogical; it'd be like a Western nation making a RA with the Congo and getting more 'beakers' (progress?) out of the agreement than the Congolese. Surely the Western nation would be able to teach them more than they would probably learn from the Congolese.
(No offense to any Congolese CivFanatics! Just trying to think of a hypothetical contemporary example).
It still happens - of all the AIs left alone to develop, Austria got through Modern and then Atomic eras way ahead of everyone else.
Alrin Kharr
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2009
- Messages
- 135
I can't find where I saw this, but I'm pretty sure that when I was reading about the new RAs, it was mentioned that you can't get more beakers out of the agreement than your partner gets.
EDIT: I got that backwards, what it says is that you cannot get more research from your partner than what you produced yourself.
Hmm... that's unfortunate. Although judging by your screenshots in the other thread would I be right to say that this has potentially more to do with Austrias UA than a weakness in the way the new RAs are done?
I don't think the new tech system will prevent runaways, it just would appear to be that they're less likely to occur and, when/if they occur, they won't be as ahead as can happen in vanilla Civ 5.
Then again, I haven't the game yet so if massive AI runaways are still par for the course then jjkrause84 may be quite correct.
MadDjinn
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 4,554
RAs approximately (very approx) give you ~5 turns (avg) of beakers from you and the partner player (10 turns total if the same). That's at the low 50% mark. With PT/Rationalism it goes up.
now.. Say I sign an RA with a super OP runaway who has 10x my beakers/turn. Should I get a multiple of 10 of beakers from that RA? no. It produces 'slingshot' effects that completely and utterly ruin game play decisions.
GS bulbing is now 8 turns worth of beakers. So yes, you will need Academies if you want to see the other side of the tech tree.
For the Congo example: If the Congolese only have 1/100 of the scientists or research labs available, then there's only so much you can learn. Put another way, you can't teach Particle Physics to a bushman and expect them to be able to use/understand it right away. They'll get some of it, but if it's generally really far above someones knowledge level, they won't randomly be able to understand it now.
There's still possibilities for runaway bpt civs, but you should be able to spot them very quickly and realize not to sign RAs with them.
now.. Say I sign an RA with a super OP runaway who has 10x my beakers/turn. Should I get a multiple of 10 of beakers from that RA? no. It produces 'slingshot' effects that completely and utterly ruin game play decisions.
GS bulbing is now 8 turns worth of beakers. So yes, you will need Academies if you want to see the other side of the tech tree.
For the Congo example: If the Congolese only have 1/100 of the scientists or research labs available, then there's only so much you can learn. Put another way, you can't teach Particle Physics to a bushman and expect them to be able to use/understand it right away. They'll get some of it, but if it's generally really far above someones knowledge level, they won't randomly be able to understand it now.
There's still possibilities for runaway bpt civs, but you should be able to spot them very quickly and realize not to sign RAs with them.
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