Research City or Gold City?

[ston]

Hi all

I'd like to pick up some tips on deciding whether to specialise a particular city as a science or gold producer. I guess both would need to have good commerce tiles, but I'm not sure on the other factors which would help one decide.

TIA

 

[Bostock]

A holy shrine city can be a great gold producer even without good commerce tiles.

A city with production multipliers and lots of hammers can also build a lot of science/gold without good commerce tiles.

 

[PhroX]

Well, a city has a shrine, thats a gold city, but I'll forget about them for now.

I'm not claiming to be an expert at this, but I think it really comes down to how you're using the science/gold slider. If you're putting the science side high, then your cottaged riverside grassland commerce centric cities are going to be better as science based ones than gold, as the bulk of their output is going towards science. Conversely, if you're running with the science slider low, then commerce heavy cities are going to be far better at producing gold.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Lots of food for running merchants makes a good gold city since they aren't affected by the slider.

 

[ston]

Thanks folks!

 

[Matthew5117]

Well, gold from a shrine gives, well gold. Meanwhile, cottages give commerce which turns into gold. Either way, your using that gold to use the slider. So it doesn't matter.

Welcome to the Forums, ston.

 

[Skallagrimson]

When I first map out cities I only differentiate between "commerce" and "production".

Once my borders are more or less stable (not rapidly expanding and not embroiled in a war), and I've re-centered my capital, I'll look at all my commerce cities and try to pick one as the Great Gold City (GGC) and one as the Great Science City (GSC).

The factors I consider are:

1) Any of them have shrines? Any DOUBLE-shrines?

2) Which commerce cities are closest to the capital? These will be less commerce-nerfed by maintenance costs, and more likely to be able to convert more commerce into either beakers or gold. (This is why I generally, when I have the luxury of planning it this way, of focusing most commerce cities close to the cap, and most prod cities away from the cap.)

3) Is the capital city itself a commerce city?

If the cap is commerce and does NOT have a shrine, I usually make that my GSC. If it does have a shrine (or 2), I make it my GGC.

If none of the commerce cities have a shrine, the next nearest commerce city to the cap after the GSC, I make my GGC.

 

[Soirana]

2) Which commerce cities are closest to the capital? These will be less commerce-nerfed by maintenance costs, and more likely to be able to convert more commerce into either beakers or gold. (This is why I generally, when I have the luxury of planning it this way, of focusing most commerce cities close to the cap, and most prod cities away from the cap.)

Did i missed something? Isn't maintenace claculated as whole and extracted as total percentage independently of maintenance costs?

 

[Stolen Rutters]

My decisionmaking goes something like this:
1. My early commerce cities tend to get science multipliers first since writing is an early tech so they tend to end up science cities.
2. As tech rate plummets during a post currency expansion, commerce cities that come online at that time get marketplaces before libraries.
3. If the expansion is due to conquest, I'll hopefully pick up a shrine on the way.
4. Shrine city will usually become a gold city, and may become the Wall Street City, IF it has decent production. I don't get enough engineers in my game style to pop Oxford, Wall Street, AND a Mining Inc. corp. (edit - meaning I have to build Wall Street and that city will need access to production.)

 

[Ian Kognitow]

4. Shrine city will usually become a gold city, and may become the Wall Street City, IF it has decent production. I don't get enough engineers in my game style to pop Oxford, Wall Street, AND a Mining Inc. corp. (edit - meaning I have to build Wall Street and that city will need access to production.)

Hmmm. You really shouldn't need that much production beyond what a normal financial centre would probably get off levees and/or universal suffrage - which aren't that difficult to have by the time you would be starting wall street. (I think I've only burned an Engineer on it once). The city's chief purpose is just to work the tiles/develop specialists, so when wall street comes up you shouldn't really have anything very urgent or better to build. And it's still possible to whip/rush the last few turns, if necessary. It would seem a lot better than building it away from a shrine.

***

One other consideration I usually make in designating science and financial centre is the situation at hand when I can build a first Academy. It pretty much goes in the place with the most developed commerce/cottages (assuming the cities have comparable potential).

 

[ston]

Thanks for all the responses

Actually, I found out last night that a part of my thinking behind this thread was based on a fallacy.

I'd thought up until that point that it was possible to adjust a city's research slider "independently from the global one" i.e. I thought that the slider(s) seen in the city screen relate only to that city, whereas the one in the main map view was a 'global' one applying to all cities. Doh! That would be kinda cool though; setting the slider to 0% research in finance building heavy cities, and to 100% research in science building heavy cities

 

[tycoonist]

yeah i thought that for ages too...

basic rule for me is if my slider is gonna stay below 50% for the near future, i build markets/grocers/banks. if it is above 50%, i build libraries/unis/observatories etc. first.

 

[SteelCityBlade]

yeah i thought that for ages too...

basic rule for me is if my slider is gonna stay below 50% for the near future, i build markets/grocers/banks. if it is above 50%, i build libraries/unis/observatories etc. first.

That is the way I go.

In practice there is generally a Library first out of the above in all but my Military Cities because it is a very early building. Then a Courthouse. Then depending on the balance of the slider I will prioritise science or wealth depending on which I'm putting the most into. Generally I will then always build the other types of buildings after. Just because it isn't making as many beakers as wealth is no reason to not make more beakers.

This is why I always struggle with the concept of city specialization. If people are just building wealth or science cities do they just put the specific buildings in and then build wealth or science in them.

Is it more effective to just build a library, university & observatory and then build science in one city and build a market, grocer & bank in another and then build wealth than it is to build all six buildings in both and then build wealth and science.

Sorry for hijacking. But it sort of relates to the OP.

Cheers,

 

[Bostock]

A library won't multiply your beakers from building science. A market won't help your beakers from building gold. A forge will help with both.

 

[SteelCityBlade]

A library won't multiply your beakers from building science. A market won't help your beakers from building gold. A forge will help with both.

Although that is true, and something I should have put it doesn't really answer my question. Do people have seperate science and wealth cities with exclusively science and wealth buildings or is it just a case of prioritising one genre of building over another?

 

[Bostock]

If a city's commerce is coming from the land (generally cottages), then there is IMO no point in trying to make it strictly a science city or gold city, unless you are very close to one end of the slider, in which case all cities should be prioritizing a certain type. (And if that type is "science," then you haven't cracked enough heads. )

If a city's commerce is coming from non-Rep merchants/priests, then you can stick to just gold buildings there and still be efficient.

If its science is coming from scientists, then you can stick to just science buildings there and still be efficient.

As for what I do, I usually don't ever manage to create anything other than the first type, even though I know I should.

But as for what "people" do, I don't know.

 

[SteelCityBlade]

That's helpful, thank you.

I'm very new at the game (having only won my first ever game last night (Incan, Noble, Domination, 1901AD) I haven't really used specialists much. It is something I want to do more. City Specialization just seemed to puzzle me. I got the point of Production Cities and GP Farms, but couldn't work out why people had science or wealth cities, it seems that it is just a case of prioritising builds as apposed to specialization.

 

[DaveMcW]

I got the point of Production Cities and GP Farms, but couldn't work out why people had science or wealth cities, it seems that it is just a case of prioritising builds as apposed to specialization.

You are correct, the original poster is confused.

 

[Kesshi]

I'd thought up until that point that it was possible to adjust a city's research slider "independently from the global one" i.e. I thought that the slider(s) seen in the city screen relate only to that city, whereas the one in the main map view was a 'global' one applying to all cities. Doh! That would be kinda cool though; setting the slider to 0% research in finance building heavy cities, and to 100% research in science building heavy cities

ston,

Specialists don't generate commerce, instead they generate pure Beakers or pure Gold, thus are slider independent. These are nice to run if you have in a shrined city with a corporate HQ, you can typically neglect Science buildings all together in one of these cities.

yeah i thought that for ages too...

basic rule for me is if my slider is gonna stay below 50% for the near future, i build markets/grocers/banks. if it is above 50%, i build libraries/unis/observatories etc. first.

tycoonist,

Because the gold buildings take more hammers on average, I find it better to prioritize Science buildings at 40% Science and Gold Buildings at 30% Science, assuming 0% Espionage and 0% Culture.

 

[UncleJJ]

My strategy is based on cost and other factors as well as the % multiplier to research or gold. These things will vary through the game and from city to city. There is no one simple answer. Early in the game a library is the best value building since it's cheap (90 hammers) and gives culture, unless the slider is very low this is always built first. The only exception would be a holy city with a shrine which would get the gold buildings first but that is very much the exception.

After the library it depends on whether the city will need happiness (market) or health (grocer) to grow further and one or both of these might be built if they help to grow the city, size is important as well as multiplier. For the same reason I might even build a forge before other economic buildings, particularly if there are enough hammers from mines and whipping. The forge 25% hammer bonus will pay for its 120 hammers once you've built 480 hammers worth of other buildings.

If the city doesn't need happiness or health and the research slider is high and will be in the future then deciding between university and observatory can be difficult. If culture is a problem then the university is obvious, as is the case when 6 universities are needed for Oxford. Otherwise the observatory is better value for its hammer cost and allows a specialist to be run (unlikely to be important in a cottage city with a low food surplus).

A bank gives the best % gold for the hammers, 50% for 200 hammers compared with 25% for 150 hammers for both market and grocer; so in the rare case when there is no health or happiness problem and the slider is low (perhaps when using US to rush buy things) then a bank is built before the other two. This is important if you're are using US to build infrastructure in cottage cities and gives a faster return on investment.