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Research

Discussion in 'Team Mad Scientists' started by DaveShack, Dec 7, 2008.

  1. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Location:
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    We're on BW right now with 10 turns to go.
    The 2nd citizen can give us 1 :science: per turn, so it will drop a bit.
    What will we research next? Does finding or not finding copper influence it?

    Can't post options right now, I'm hung on "finishing". :(
    Will probably have to restart the pitboss.
     
  2. Tinkerbell

    Tinkerbell Prince

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    Location:
    Wageningen, The Netherlands
    I think fishing is best to do next.
     
  3. Hummel

    Hummel Warlord

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    It's very important to get pottery fast. First we are able to build cottages and generate more commerce and second we are able to build the cheap granary. So I would research...

    1.fishing
    2.wheel
    3.pottery

    We can think about agriculture before pottery. So pottery would be cheaper to research - but the benefit in our capital would be only one food-unit.

    After this basic stuff we can go fo a religion and maybe the oracle.

    4.meditation
    5.priesterhood

    So some basic technologies are left...

    6.agriculture
    7.hunting (holkan > our UU)
    8.husbandry
     
  4. topas

    topas Prince

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    Hummel
    Your research plan looks good. That's about what I would have proposed as well.

    I would nevertheless research agriculture before the wheel. Not irrigated rice isn't quite the best tile, but it's our second best tile for growth. (Further agriculture cheapens pottery some more.)

    But we'll probably have check first weather we need the rice or not. (to build workers grasland-hill mines are better and for settlers it doesn't matter)
     
  5. ruggi

    ruggi Chieftain

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    Location:
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands
    Will we be in time to actually GET the religion(s)?
     
  6. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    I never got back to posting the things we can research and the costs. Must have slipped my mind. Can someone do that please, I'd like to comment on a plan but can't look at the game right now. ;)
     
  7. HUSch

    HUSch Secret-monger

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    Here with the necessary beaker.
    We 've long time 10-13 :commerce: so the difference will be 2-3 :science: a turn.
     
  8. topas

    topas Prince

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    Fishing will be done in 3 turns.
    What do we want to research next?

    I would either go the wheel -> pottery or go agriculture -> the wheel -> pottery.
    Agriculture will cost us ~7 turns of research and will cut 1 turn of pottery. So it delays pottery by 6 turns.
    I think we should go for agriculture only if we need it for our 2nd city. (+1F on the rice is not worth loosing 6 turns on pottery)
    Maybe we should calculate, when we need pottery, because we are able to work cottages...
     
  9. HUSch

    HUSch Secret-monger

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    There is also iron to search, if we don't see copper in the next turns.
    For what do we need granaries.
     
  10. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

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    Pottery does granaries

    I'm leaning towards doing pottery next, just so we can start growing a cottage sooner.
     
  11. topas

    topas Prince

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    peter
    That's basically what my post says.
    I would go for pottery next, but we will need the wheel for that.
    The main question for me is wheather it's worth to research agriculture first. For me this depends on:
    a) Do we need agriculture for our second city?
    b) Can CERN work a cottage in the 6 turns, that agriculture would delay pottery?
    c) Do we have 1 (or 2) workers to build a cottage at that time.
    (I fear that CERN will be too small to really worry about working a cottage by then...)
     
  12. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

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    Ahhh - thanks for spelling it out for me :D

    Without looking at the save, I'm not very good at this sort of analysis. I'll take a look now.
     
  13. ruggi

    ruggi Chieftain

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    I (still) think we should go for a religion soon. I find religions always very useful (especiially with some of the wonders). As we have a one time chance of getting it we should soon go for one to prevent other teams from getting their earlier.
     
  14. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Also the +1 :) each for state religion and temple are important. We don't have many :) resources visible in our immediate area.
     
  15. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

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    I'm just throwing this out there, so I apologize if I'm missing something big:

    Why do pottery before going for a religion? Why do Wheel before going for a religion?

    We've got BW - so the worker can prechop (or straight chop) and mine. We could delay the other worker techs for a little bit.

    What are the problems with my idea? :mischief:
     
  16. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    :confused:

    Was that an argument in favor of wheel->pottery? I agree, that should be placed ahead of agri and AH. (Though our only nearby strategic resource could be horses depending on whether Sullla thinks horses are as good as metal)

    Caveat: I struggle with prince difficulty. Don't really know what I'm doing wrong.

    My thought process at this stage of the game normally goes like this:
    1. Are the religions still available? If no, skip to the no religion path
    2. Is a religion wanted? Answer is almost always yes. If no, skip
    3. Is there a compelling reason to research something else, like a resource that can't be improved for lack of tech? Or no strategic resources visible?

    Is it the most efficient? I'd say probably not, given I can't beat prince reliably. But I never miss out on a religion that I want. Once in a while I get 6 of them, even all 7 if none of the others start with mysticism. Though that's not a good strategy in MP since you can't really win an AP vote. ;)

    The main choices as I see them, in no particular order:
    • Reveal iron
    • Get one or more religions and set up for the oracle
    • Enable cottages, farms, pastures
     
  17. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

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    No. I was saying that if we're going to go for a religion, we should do that now. The worker can chop and mine while we research Meditation and the next work tech.

    I'm not necessarily advocating this plan - I'm just proposing it so that we can determine if it makes more sense to get a religion now. After all, if we're going to do the Oracle, we may as well get a religion along the way ;)
     
  18. HUSch

    HUSch Secret-monger

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    1. We get no cottages in long time earliest in the next town. CERN needs irrigate for food.

    I would want another strategic res (Iron or horses) and don't know the value of hunting for our UU (Holkan)
    In few turns we get ~14 netto :science:
    If we want horse, my plan would be:
    1. Agriculture and hunting together 148 :science: 12 turns ( in the beginning we 've only 10 :commerce:
    2. Animal Hus 149 :science: with factor 1.4 => 7 turns
    together ~ 19 turns
    If we renounce 1 tech; animal costs 9 turns, hunting (4.5) and agri (7)
    iron needs 299 :science: with factor 1.2 also 19 turns.
    Also both in my estimation the same time.
    In 2840 we begin our 2. worker, with chop and pop 3 he needs ~5 turns.
    So in 2640 our settler begins, in my estimation with 2 chops 6-7 turns.
    But the last estimations aren't exact.
     
  19. ruggi

    ruggi Chieftain

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    I opt for researching budishm after finishing current research.

    As stated
    - there is no direct reason for doing the other researches now as we will likely be choping forest for a while (see also e.g. plan HUSch).
    - we only have 1 chance to be first!
    - we want (at least one) religion:
    - +1 :)
    - :culture: bonus (very usefull early game for new cities)
    - ...
     
  20. Tinkerbell

    Tinkerbell Prince

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    I agree with the religion plan, it will help the entire game to have one.
     

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