Resistance in cities

[xau99]

If this has already been discussed please point me in the right direction. I just want to know how to reduce the time it takes to take over a city in civ 4. Whether I use 30 units or 5 units the resistance does not change. One city took 26 turns to convert - is there a way to speed this up or change the calculation to something more realistic (i.e. if I have more units in the city it should convert faster)

 

[Catcher]

The only way to reduce the number of turns a newly conquered city is in Resistance that I know of is to use a Great Artist as a "Culture Bomb", which brings the city out immediately. This points to Culture being the key component, so there might be some effect if you have a nearby city with some cultural overlap, but that's not tested. Number of units is only helpful when you're fighting Revolutions in a city you already own. Then, both number and relative power of the Units can keep the city from flipping, but it will do nothing for a newly conquered city as you've discovered.

 

[floppymoose]

I've had some serious problem with culturebombing cities in resistance. I've ended up with cultural borders that made no sense (for instance, having holes right next to the city despite no nearby opponent culture pressure). If I wait until the city is out of resistance, then culture bombs behave as expected.

 

[xau99]

Thanks guys, i will use that tactic - I hope that in the future they change this and provide a better way to quell resistance

 

[Catcher]

Glad to be of assistance, but I wouldn't expect too much in "addressing this issue." Wars of conquest in Civ4 are supposed to be expensive and make the Player make some hard choices. Questions like 'Will this city come out of Resistance before a nearby third party flips it?' or 'Should I use my GA on this city with great production or that city with a couple of Wonders?' or 'Can I take the drag on my economy that conquering two more cities will create?' are all part of the design Vision of Civ4. I happen to like it that way myself, but I can see the other side as well. Good hunting.

 

[Chrono285]

Culture bombs have always worked fine for me. They don't seem to be quite as effective in spreading your borders as it would have been to grow the 4000 culture yourself though.

 

[DaviddesJ]

It seems to be a deliberate decision to make resistance take so long. In Civ3, you could end resistance faster by putting lots of units in the city. They took that feature out---I don't know why.

 

[Spaced out]

Look at Iraq. When you drop your army into a city and remove their government they don't immediatly love you.

 

[floppymoose]

The idea with resistance is the same as the idea with city number affecting maintainance, and with war weariness, troop maintainance, and troop outside your border maintainance: to give the non-leading player a chance to react. Otherwise, any kind of lead would snowball into a domination victory almost immediately.

 

[DaviddesJ]

The idea with resistance is the same as the idea with city number affecting maintainance, and with war weariness, troop maintainance, and troop outside your border maintainance: to give the non-leading player a chance to react.

I'm a bit skeptical that this is "the" reason, since these things were present in Civ3 when it had no multiplayer support at all.

But, I can see that they do serve that role, to an extent, for MP play. Not much in SP, since the AIs don't really react much.

 

[floppymoose]

My comment didn't draw any distinction between MP and SP.

 

[DaviddesJ]

My comment didn't draw any distinction between MP and SP.

You said "the reason" for the game being the way it is, is something that only applies to MP play.

That seems implausible, since Civ3 was the same way even when it was only SP.

 

[TheDS]

You said "the reason" for the game being the way it is, is something that only applies to MP play.

That seems implausible, since Civ3 was the same way even when it was only SP.

Er, no, the most confusing term he used was "the non-leading player", which as we all know, a player can be human or computer.

Closer to the subject tho.... It seems to me that larger cities, and those with huge cultures take longer to suppress.

The Culture Bomb may have a bug: Whenever I have used it, the borders of the city don't seem to change, regardless of whether the city is in revolt or not. Worse, with all that culture, now you've got a LONG way to go till you get to the next border expansion, and it's still not going to take you to where your borders ought to be if youd grown it there without the GA. Sending in a second GA doesn't make things better, only worse, because now you're even FARTHER from the next border-expansion.

If AFU borders are WAD, then someone needs a new definition of 'Working As Designed'.

 

[floppymoose]

You said "the reason" for the game being the way it is, is something that only applies to MP play.

No, I didn't say that. I don't play MP. When I said other player, I meant any other player, including an AI opponent.

 

[DarkFyre99]

The Culture Bomb may have a bug: Whenever I have used it, the borders of the city don't seem to change, regardless of whether the city is in revolt or not. Worse, with all that culture, now you've got a LONG way to go till you get to the next border expansion, and it's still not going to take you to were your borders ought to be if youd grown it there without the GA. Sending in a second GA doesn't make things better, only worse, because now you're even FARTHER from the next border-expansion.

The Culture Bomb adds a lot of culture to the city only This affects how far the city's sphere of influence reaches. You still have to culturally control the tiles around the city, either by having the plurality of culture in those tiles, or being the only Civ who is influencing that tile (usually by eliminating its neighboring cities).

A city with 4000 culture (radius of 5) and producing 1 culture per turn isn't going to have as many tiles under its control as a neighboring city with a culture of 300 (radius 3) who's been producing 3 culture per turn for 100 turns. However, if you were to drop the bomb and then crank up the culture to thirteen per turn, then you'd overcome that other city's culture after about 30 turns.

(This is, of course, an oversimplification, since distance is also a factor. The farther you are from the city, the less of that city's culture per turn you get.)

You don't drop the C-bomb on a newly captured city to extend your borders. You drop it to end resistance so you can build whatever buildings you need. If I get a great artist, I usually save them for invading another continent in the modern era, after I've gotten flight. I want an airport there ASAP, so I don't have to ferry my army (and later reinforcements) over by ship.

If you want to expand your newly conquored city's borders, and for whatever reason you aren't planning on conquoring its neighbors, the better use of the GA is to settle them. It'll get your city radius up to two on the first turn out of resistance, and will pump a lot of culture into the surrounding area, so you'll get tiles earlier that way.

 

[DaviddesJ]

No, I didn't say that. I don't play MP. When I said other player, I meant any other player, including an AI opponent.

I see. Then you were simply mistaken. The AIs don't react to your success by banding against you.

 

[floppymoose]

I see. Then you were simply mistaken. The AIs don't react to your success by banding against you.

You are are misunderstanding me. I can see how you misunderstood me the first time, thinking player meant human player. But I never said anything about banding together, so I'm not sure where you are off to now.