Resources: No Horses & Iron near you means you are crippled

[Emerald Melios]

Anybody find it a little unsettling that a civiliztion is rendered completely militarily helpless if there's no iron AND horses in the vicinity? It's really frustrating to play only to be crippled because no horse or iron (or even copper in some cases) is near me, which means you may as well quit since you have no chance against anyone who has iron and horses.

 

[Equendil]

Anybody find it a little unsettling that a civiliztion is rendered completely militarily helpless if there's no iron AND horses in the vicinity? It's really frustrating to play only to be crippled because no horse or iron (or even copper in some cases) is near me, which means you may as well quit since you have no chance against anyone who has iron and horses.

There's no city a stack of catapult zerglings can't take on

 

[AfterShafter]

Considering I play a resourceless game with Wang Kon on emperor... You're not entirely correct.

Only situations this leaves you crippled in are where you're fighting other players and they're rushing you in a big way. Otherwise, archers can hold out through CPU early wars until longbows in most situations.

Besides, we're not playing Starcraft here... Diplomacy is often the best defence you can get - too many people can't see past the axemen rush in this game.

 

[Mr. Civtastic]

I almost always have Copper and/or Iron. Research bronze working right away (which most people do) and build your second or third city near copper. If there isnt any copper nearby, research iron working. Animal husbandry is also quickly researched if you are that concerned with horses. And Elephants will be useful with construction (not terribly hard to get either).

So if you have none of these resources, you have yourself to blame to a large degree.

Lets assume you have NONE of these resources (ive never played a game that this was true). You can easily survive with longbowmen, and then take to the offensive with crossbowmen and cats/trebs.

Always another way...

 

[AfterShafter]

...and then take to the offensive with crossbowmen and cats/trebs.

Crossbows require iron, if I'm not mistaken?

 

[blaugh]

I played three straight archipelago games where I had no horses,iron or copper. It was pretty rough.

 

[automator]

Diplomacy is often the best defence you can get - too many people can't see past the axemen rush in this game

Correct. You just can't be an early military power without iron or horses. Stave off aggression early on, becoming a scientific power, perhaps. Explore for smallish islands that might have the resources you seek. Or wait around for wars between neighbors. Since the AI is quite willing to raze, just hang out (perferably with open border agreements) -- when a city is razed, get there with a settler/longbow (or even archer) and settle! I've stretched a band of territory from my small, weak kingdom all the way across the continent, gaining access to Ivory, dyes, gems, iron, uranium (discovered later), and horses. With those newfound resources, I conquored the weaker of the two fighting nations, and thus became the dominant Civ on my continent, rather than the weakest.

 

[Sisiutil]

I've never had to try it, but I've seen some other players on the board swear by a Catapult/Archery unit rush in the absence of the three early war resources.

 

[AfterShafter]

I've never had to try it, but I've seen some other players on the board swear by a Catapult/Archery unit rush in the absence of the three early war resources.

It works, though I find it a bit weak until you get longbowmen. Swordsman and horse archers both can stop a cat/archer attack dead in its tracks if they don't come in in a big stack and just hit in groups of 2 or 3. With longbowmen on the other hand - with a few upgrades, they are a viable defence against things right up until you're encountering gunpowder units. It is actually very powerful with a protective civ, and VERY good with the Koreans who have a special unit catapult.

 

[Zanmato]

I didn't have Copper or Iron on a Pangea so the other Civ's just ripped right through my cities and they did it fairly early too. Pangea games tend to be fairly savage affairs anyway but lacking these resources just seems to make you an easy target earlier.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

Diplomacy is often the best defence you can get - too many people can't see past the axemen rush in this game.

Too true, too true...
More than once I've been caught in this 'impossible' position. The trick, of course, is to keep your neighbours happy and your cities will defended. Once the homeland is secure, concentrate on research and colonizing other (hopefully resource-rich) lands to strengthen your economy and access more modern units. On many occasions, I haven't started an offensive until the Industrial era.

 

[AfterShafter]

Too true, too true...
More than once I've been caught in this 'impossible' position. The trick, of course, is to keep your neighbours happy and your cities will defended. Once the homeland is secure, concentrate on research and colonizing other (hopefully resource-rich) lands to strengthen your economy and access more modern units. On many occasions, I haven't started an offensive until the Industrial era.

Oh yeah. Neat thing is, even if you have a relatively small civ, if you can just hold down the fort until you get longbows and trebs (even cats will do), you can cripple or take out larger civs with copper/iron. Honestly, I find horse archers, and then particularly knights, to be the biggest problem when longbowmen are the backbone of your war effort, not the metal based units (though, knights do require iron).

 

[gettingfat]

SP games: Lack of the three major military resources won't lose you games. As long as you don't use a State religion, and more importantly, keep your power rating in top three by building archery units, and once in a while throw the aggressive neighbour AIs a couple of bones and they won't attack you. Once you research gunpowder you have your second life.

MP: That's much tougher because there is no diplomacy. The biggest problem is not only against axemen rush. Unless you've got ivory you have no counter against any mounted units for a few thousand years. You'll be pillaged to death. Build stacks of archers and wall, and research construction and Feudalism as quick as possible and hope for the best.

 

[apopholeus813]

On pangea maps with no iron, copper, horses it's possible to survive by keeping your religion in line with most powerfull neighbor and defending your other borders.

 

[Sisiutil]

gettingfat's post reminded me that in the absence of copper, horses, and iron, ivory can be valuable for war materiel, allowing you to build War Elephants. You'd probably be bee-lining desperately to Construction for Catapults anyway, so if you have ivory, you're that much better off.

 

[Uiler]

I almost always have Copper and/or Iron. Research bronze working right away (which most people do) and build your second or third city near copper. If there isnt any copper nearby, research iron working. Animal husbandry is also quickly researched if you are that concerned with horses. And Elephants will be useful with construction (not terribly hard to get either).

So if you have none of these resources, you have yourself to blame to a large degree.

Lets assume you have NONE of these resources (ive never played a game that this was true). You can easily survive with longbowmen, and then take to the offensive with crossbowmen and cats/trebs.

Always another way...

Well, there was the time I started alone on a cold dry island with room enough for two cities and completely unable to go to any other land-mass besides a nearby 1 tile ice island until Optics...

Obviously I didn't have any copper, iron or horses in this scenario and it wasn't my fault

But otherwise I agree with you most of the time.

 

[Artosoft]

Well, there was the time I started alone on a cold dry island with room enough for two cities and completely unable to go to any other land-mass besides a nearby 1 tile ice island until Optics...

Obviously I didn't have any copper, iron or horses in this scenario and it wasn't my fault

But otherwise I agree with you most of the time.

.

I wish they put penguin on it. BTW, is penguin edible?

Regards,
Arto.

 

[Sisiutil]

.

I wish they put penguin on it. BTW, is penguin edible?

Regards,
Arto.

Why eat them when you can use them to build the dreaded war penguin?

 

[Uiler]

Why eat them when you can use them to build the dreaded war penguin?

I remember reading that when Linus was asked about whether a penguin was the right image for Linux as it seemed too well, nice and cute, he replied that you've obviously never seen an angry fat penguin charge someone

But alas, my little island was in the north i.e. the artic. Maybe polar bears instead?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Well, there was the time I started alone on a cold dry island with room enough for two cities and completely unable to go to any other land-mass besides a nearby 1 tile ice island until Optics...

Obviously I didn't have any copper, iron or horses in this scenario and it wasn't my fault

But otherwise I agree with you most of the time.

Actually, that Would be an interesting start, could you give us a general outline of how the game went?