Resources Underwhelming...:sad:

[ben_the_man]

I used to get a feeling - one that can be described as what a heroin junkie must feel taking a hit after withdrawl - when I saw clustered resources in civ 4. One time, my starting city had 4 gems, 2 gold, 3 fish and pigs in my radius, and I had to change my pants.

Resources in Civ5 are so much more underwhelming. Food resources are essentially useless... Cows give +1 production... might as well put a farm there for eventual +2 food. All luxury resources are the same, with the exception of gems which give +2 gold when mined, and gold and silver which have that mint building for +3 gold. Strategic resources are much MORE important this time around, but still add very little in terms of production (+1 for iron... gimmie a break!)

For a game without maintenance where we actually CAN build distal cities in perfect spots with no monetary consequence, I wish resources were much more powerful. I wish food resources DID something (maybe have grocery stores or something that give + per food resource in city radius, or growth bonuses. I also wish there was some incentive to have massive quantities, like the corporation component of Civ4.

I miss my resource crack...

 

[aryah]

upping the yields of an improved resources would probably be sufficient, likely strategically beneficial - so city placement means more and so you have an incentive to get to relevant improvement techs for resources you got, and has already preliminarily been modded. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9668184#post9668184

Shouldn't be overdone though, since there are more of them, and a city could potentially at least work more tiles.

 

[dorn]

I sort of doubt that if you mod it the AI will start realizing the importance of resources sadly.

 

[ShaqFu]

Luxury resources are incredibly useful in this game. If you can corner the market on a given resource (I had one game where I owned most of the world's Spice), you can turn that into +30 easily via trading and put your cities into rapture. Hardly underwhelming.

And let's not understate the usefulness of Marble's +25% wonder production.

 

[Necro-]

from the mod threads it's been said the ai seems to take resources much more so it seems that the ai realizes their new importance

 

[gunter]

Sorry about the noob question but if a resource like for example Iron or Horse are few tiles out of your cities is there perhaps a special way to take them ? ...assuming you can't reach reach them buying tiles or founding a new city near them

 

[ben_the_man]

upping the yields of an improved resources would probably be sufficient, likely strategically beneficial - so city placement means more and so you have an incentive to get to relevant improvement techs for resources you got, and has already preliminarily been modded.

Ya, I guess, but still no health benefits or corporation benefits like in Civ4, which is sad to me.

Luxury resources are incredibly useful in this game. If you can corner the market on a given resource (I had one game where I owned most of the world's Spice), you can turn that into +30 easily via trading and put your cities into rapture. Hardly underwhelming.

And let's not understate the usefulness of Marble's +25% wonder production.

Since the game is now basically based on happiness, luxury resources are incredibly important to have, but their production is underwhelming. If you have a city with 4 sugars, you might as well farm or trading post up 3 of them (assuming comps don't want) cause it gives you more stuff. These resources should either massively increase the tile yield they are on, or have some other benefits.

Cornering the market is probably not something you can count on doing in most games... and marble is the ONE resource I have no problem with. Quarry increases prodution AND gold (not too shabby) and it has another benefit with wonder production.

 

[aryah]

Ya, I guess, but still no health benefits or corporation benefits like in Civ4, which is sad to me.

heh, true, corporations and health don't exist anymore. I doubt they would compensate the removal of features to give some comparable effect - why remove them then in the first place?

 

[andrewlt]

Yeah, I dislike how bad resources have become bonus-wise in this game. The bonus resources are all crap, except for wheat. The strategic and luxury resources are bad as well, aside from the strategic and happiness boost.

You're essentially better off placing your cities near tons of rivers/forests/plains for production/gold and then getting your luxury and maybe even strategic resources from city-states. The exceptions are wheat (which uses a farm) and stuff like gold, silver, incense, whale, etc. that have additional bonuses or buildings that give them additional bonuses.

 

[gunter]

Sorry about the noob question but if a resource like for example Iron or Horse are few tiles out of your cities is there perhaps a special way to take them ? ...assuming you can't reach reach them buying tiles or founding a new city near them

Anyone ?

Thanks in advance

 

[Luckystrike77]

I am happy with more balanced starting positions in Civ 5 then in Civ 4. Now it's much more based on skill how good you make it in the start, not how lucky you where starting with 3 gems, a river, and some good food resources. I guess the complainers are those who restarted their own sp Civ 4 games until they had a crazy good start location, or always quited turn 2 from multiplayer games because their capital only had a few weak resources?

 

[Adam7Eight]

Anyone ?

Thanks in advance

No, not really. You'll either have to wait until you can buy the tile or just settle a city next to it.

 

[NZV]

Sell that resource to another civ and suddenly that tile is making you an extra 5-10 GPT.

I'd also like to mention that sea resources are -amazing- if you have a bunch of them next to your city, and get the buildings that improve them. In my current small islands game, there's a whopping ten fish resources being worked by my first two cities. Each one is 4 food, 2 production, and 3 gold without the colossus. As for land resources, the two gold tiles next to my capital are producing 6 gold and 3 production each. And one of them is being traded for silver. Pretty damn good. Flood plains wheat is getting me 6 food, 1 production. Fantastic.

Resources aren't all bad.

 

[gunter]

No, not really. You'll either have to wait until you can buy the tile or just settle a city next to it.

thanks

 

[aryah]

I am happy with more balanced starting positions in Civ 5 then in Civ 4. Now it's much more based on skill how good you make it in the start, not how lucky you where starting with 3 gems, a river, and some good food resources. I guess the complainers are those who restarted their own sp Civ 4 games until they had a crazy good start location, or always quited turn 2 from multiplayer games because their capital only had a few weak resources?

I don't know if it really makes it more skill based, and I don't believe you are being fair in characterising where this complaint is coming from. Its true the starting position is less random, but then intelligent positioning of your cities is also somewhat less important - dotting the map correctly was a fairly grand long-term strategic decision to make early on. I really doubt the net effect is more emphasis on skillful play.
Well, in any case its easy to change, and w a little of playtesting, the community will probably restore the balance

 

[andrewlt]

I am happy with more balanced starting positions in Civ 5 then in Civ 4. Now it's much more based on skill how good you make it in the start, not how lucky you where starting with 3 gems, a river, and some good food resources. I guess the complainers are those who restarted their own sp Civ 4 games until they had a crazy good start location, or always quited turn 2 from multiplayer games because their capital only had a few weak resources?

It's not the starting positions. A lot of the fun of the early game in Civ 4 and back was scouting the map for favorable locations to plant your next few cities. Not to mention that each resource would give something different. Some gave a lot of food, some gave a lot of hammers, some gave a lot of gold and some gave a combination of each.

In Civ 5, just about every single bonus resource gives 1 food and improving them gives another 1 food. The exception is wheat, because its improvement is a farm, so it's better. Almost all the strategic resources are just 1 production and the luxury resources 1 gold as well. It's kinda monotonous.

 

[ben_the_man]

I am happy with more balanced starting positions in Civ 5 then in Civ 4. Now it's much more based on skill how good you make it in the start, not how lucky you where starting with 3 gems, a river, and some good food resources. I guess the complainers are those who restarted their own sp Civ 4 games until they had a crazy good start location, or always quited turn 2 from multiplayer games because their capital only had a few weak resources?

You're missing my point. Both systems have their strategic merits, I am not really debating that here. I am only saying resources in Civ4 were much more important, and the reward systems in my brain would fire off like a supernova when I found "perfect" city spots. Building amazing cities was really really fun.

I don't know if it really makes it more skill based, and I don't believe you are being fair in characterising where this complaint is coming from. Its true the starting position is less random, but then intelligent positioning of your cities is also somewhat less important - dotting the map correctly was a fairly grand long-term strategic decision to make early on. I really doubt the net effect is more emphasis on skillful play.

This. Good post.

It's not the starting positions. A lot of the fun of the early game in Civ 4 and back was scouting the map for favorable locations to plant your next few cities. Not to mention that each resource would give something different. Some gave a lot of food, some gave a lot of hammers, some gave a lot of gold and some gave a combination of each.

In Civ 5, just about every single bonus resource gives 1 food and improving them gives another 1 food. The exception is wheat, because its improvement is a farm, so it's better. Almost all the strategic resources are just 1 production and the luxury resources 1 gold as well. It's kinda monotonous.

This too. Highly specialized cities are much harder to create due to resource nurf, and the monotony is really irritating to me. IMO, way less fun than the diverse and useful resources of Civ4.

 

[WuphonsReach]

In Civ 5, just about every single bonus resource gives 1 food and improving them gives another 1 food. The exception is wheat, because its improvement is a farm, so it's better. Almost all the strategic resources are just 1 production and the luxury resources 1 gold as well. It's kinda monotonous.

Spot on... I wrote up a huge post about the lack of differentiation between the various resources and the issues with gold being king (over production) in gold vs mines.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=383372

See also the consolidated balance thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=382775

I may go digging into the XML/LUA files next weekend... but after 30+ hours of trying to enjoy a "large" map (3 games, none made it to completion due to bugs or bland gameplay), I'm a bit burned out and disappointed.

 

[GabriellesBlade]

As far as resources go, from what i have observed:
Bananas are the best food - you get same food as irrigated farm.
lumbermills are better than mining; +2 with steam, or +3 if your iroquis. Its too bad you cant plant forests.

 

[andrewlt]

Spot on... I wrote up a huge post about the lack of differentiation between the various resources and the issues with gold being king (over production) in gold vs mines.

That's because a mine only gives +1 production while a trading post gives +2 gold. You're better off getting your production from lumber mills, which become +2 with a later technology.