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Response to RB?

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by talonschild, Sep 12, 2012.

?

Should we send a response to RB, or wait for them to speak?

Poll closed Sep 19, 2012.
  1. Yes! Answer!

    10 vote(s)
    76.9%
  2. No! Don't answer!

    3 vote(s)
    23.1%
  1. talonschild

    talonschild Drive-By NESer

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    We have a problem: Do we respond to RB at all? The Sommerswerd school of thought says, "Let them come to us." The Yossarian school says, "Why don't we give them a little prod?"

    So, what do you think? Respond or no?
     
  2. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    My tenative answer is don't not send them anything for now.

    Give me some time to mull it over though and I might think of something that makes sense to send them. Sometimes it takes a day or two for things to marinate before the right solution or ideal answer materializes.
     
  3. 1889

    1889 Mayor of H-Marker Lake

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    Moot point. We already said we will respond.

     
  4. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    No. "Soon" can mean a day or it can mean three weeks. It's a favorite word used by game developers for just that reason.
     
  5. 1889

    1889 Mayor of H-Marker Lake

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    :lol: +1 Caledorn
     
  6. whb

    whb King

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    Yes I think we should contact them again. Kind words are free. And I think congratulating them on their new city is a wonderful idea. We're your friends, but we are watching you.

    But don't volunteer any more map info etc yet.

    (Just my opinion)
     
  7. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    I am divided in my opinion on this. We might make good impression by telling them we know about their city, but we might give away we are watching them close and the fact that we are way better informed and aware of what they are doing. If they are not aware we are aware, they might be less careful or may lead them to presumably underestimate our potential when planning/dealing with us, so we can have better chances of seeing what is coming or what they are planning this way.

    Basically it boils to if we want them to underestimate us which:
    a/ will give us some advantage at some point,
    b/decide we are not worthy of an allies

    or we want them to think of us as serious competition with all the things which follow from this:
    a/ they decide we are worthy to be befriended and treated as equals.
    b/ they decide we can be threat to them and they must be all the time cautious and suspicious about us and eventually at some point try to eliminate us to eliminate a strong rival.
     
  8. grant2004

    grant2004 Citizen

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    At the moment, I'm not sure if we should respond. I'll hold my vote for a little while. I don't think we'll have much of substance to say. I don't think we should congratulate them on their new city. Depending on your interpretation of why they played clock games last turn, they may have been trying to hide the founding of their 2nd city. Revealing that we know anyway would show that we are watching the demographics, and are at least competent at it. If they're arrogant enough to believe they are the only good demohackers in the game, as some have suggested, let's not spoil the surprise.
     
  9. 1889

    1889 Mayor of H-Marker Lake

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    We said we would respond so they are expecting something, a long silence now will lead to unhelpful suspicion.

     
  10. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    I've been maybe more outspoken than I should on this topic. I should point out that I have no personal experience with diplomacy in Demo-Games, and I am regularly surprised by reactions I read to Diplo messages in the games that I lurk (taking offense to or finding sarcasm in messages I thought were supportive or friendly, apologizing or finding renewed common ground in messages that I thought were pushy or aggressive). I really do have a lot of faith in Sommerswerd and company, so I want to take a back seat as far as this decision goes. If we were still doing the Borda count voting method, I'd vote "North Pole" once or twice before giving my true opinion.

    That said, this quote from tobiasn sums up my feelings pretty well:

    I think Caledorn's most recent draft (quoted by 1889 in the previous post) works well to keep us going in that direction. My 1/2 vote is for sending some version of that message.
     
  11. Aivoturso

    Aivoturso King

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    I believe that the correct position will be somewhere in the middle ground. Personally if I had choice I'd prefer to ally with someone who I believe can hold their own and contribute to the alliance but I believe will still be a bit behind me in the end. The trick is trying to find the correct balance with the messages. IMO, mentioning their city is not a good idea but a short message where we basically say "OK, we understand the position you are taking and respect it. Let's talk more when we both have more info. We're sure we can work out something mutually beneficial."
     
  12. tobiasn

    tobiasn Warlord

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    I think you're over-thinking this way too much. It's not like the fate of the future with RB is decided by this answer. We have a dialogue going, and let's use that. It makes no sense to not acknowledge their response, go moot or whatever. It just makes us lose initiative.

    I think the NAP we have is way too loose. I've suggested several places that we suggest some kind of rolling auto-renewal. We can do this without being pushy or begging.

    Also, I think we should not come off as "disappointed". It serves absolutely no purpose. What's supposed to happen, are they gonna feel sorry for us? Keep it simple. We're in a better place than them right now, we're certainly on par with their skill, we're both better off with not fighting early, and both teams know this.

    I'd suggest something along these lines:

    Basically just encouraging them to scout and mirroring what they said, while being friendly. That's all we can do now. If they come back to us when we see their warrior, it's probably good. If we have to initiate the dialogue, I'd be a little more worried. In any case, I'd suggest that we have a clear opinion about how we want the NAP to work by the time they've looked around.
     
  13. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    This is actually a brilliant response, tobias!
     
  14. Aivoturso

    Aivoturso King

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    :thumbsup: This catches very nicely the sentiment that I had in mind. I support sending this message.
     
  15. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Yeah, good message, Tobias.
     
  16. grant2004

    grant2004 Citizen

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    I like that draft a lot. I think we should send something, the last message we sent over is going to have them waiting for a reply from us. If we go silent, it will be a while before they even consider sending another message to us. I'm not convinced there's any benefit to waiting, and making them wonder what we're thinking. I'd send Tobiasn's draft now.
     
  17. talonschild

    talonschild Drive-By NESer

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    Agreed. It's not go nna get much better than that, and the word "soon" should be adhered to fairly closely. RB does follow the letter of the law scrupulously.
     
  18. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    Well done Tobias, I think that is a good note to send.
     
  19. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    Missed this when posting in the other thread - why do we have two threads? :crazyeye:
     

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