Retreat!

[Argetnyx]

AA doesnt really bother me much, since i make about 50 million bombers

 

[Taras Bulba]

AA doesnt really bother me much, since i make about 50 million bombers

I do the same thing, but with good anti-air defenses, it can destroy huge amounts of aircraft... it can be very bothersome when you're building 5 bombers every turn, and each turn 5 bombers you have are being destroyed

 

[Argetnyx]

i rarely find them though

 

[CarthageFTW]

Don't forget numidian mercs! They are the reason I fear no enemy in the dark ages... maybe immortals once in awhile are some trouble, but numidians usually keep my cities safe and me confident to have an easy dark age.

BUHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA! Even though I hate the historical inacuracy of calling them Numedian (Carthage in located in the current capital of Tusina, or however you spell it) I'm a Carthage to the death fan and constantly use them in the Ancient and even into the middle ages. It's like getting a bowman and hoplite in the same unit (acutally, it's exactly like that lolz). It's with these guys that I don't fear legions, hoplites, bowmen, and to an extent knights/samuari/war elephants/riders. Although, I have to say I voted for Immortals. While cav are a bit annoying becuase they tend to pop out of fog of war at the worst possible times, attack, and then retreat, Immortals are just plain scary for two reasons.
1. They're the most powerul Ancient Times unit in the game
2. they're defense allows them to defend against most offensive units until Pikemen
This is part of the reason i refuse to play at Perisa anymore. Too overpowered. I see those coming and even with my mercs, I'm still like "aw ****. I'm screwed." this is probabblly why I stay nice with them until my war age, industrial.

edit: I love the merc animation by the way. They reach very far out, and with a downward motion. It's like "I'm stabbing you straight throught the neck, and I'm slashing you in half *****!"

 

[Taras Bulba]

Even though I hate the historical inacuracy of calling them Numedian (Carthage in located in the current capital of Tusina, or however you spell it)

this isn't entirely inaccurate.

Carthage itself wasn't a very militaristic civilization, but rather a commercial and seafaring one. Its leaders, however, the Barca's were very intelligent military strategists...

the Barca's, knowing of rising Roman power, which would eventually overpower them, knew they needed to strike first, but seeing as their military strength wasn't great, and they had great wealth, they used mercenaries from quite a few parts of the ancient world.

more info on Carthaginian mercenaries here

however it isn't totally accurate, I agree, because Numidians offered a more elite cavalry rather than an elite foot infantry

Abroad the Carthaginians used mercenaries, notably Spanish (Iberian) soldiers recruited from their territory in Spain. They brought heavy infantry, as well as cavalry and light troops such as javelin throwers and slingers. From Africa, Numidians provided light cavalry, among the best ever produced by any nation. They rode without saddles and bridles, controlling their horses by using their riding sticks and voice commands. They also served as light infantry using javelins and slings.

This is part of the reason i refuse to play at Perisa anymore. Too overpowered. I see those coming and even with my mercs, I'm still like "aw ****. I'm screwed." this is probabblly why I stay nice with them until my war age, industrial.

this also isn't totally inaccurate. The Persian Immortals for the most part were a very feared fighting force in the ancient world that for a long time dominated the fighting scene.

 

[CarthageFTW]

this isn't entirely inaccurate.

Carthage itself wasn't a very militaristic civilization, but rather a commercial and seafaring one. Its leaders, however, the Barca's were very intelligent military strategists...

the Barca's, knowing of rising Roman power, which would eventually overpower them, knew they needed to strike first, but seeing as their military strength wasn't great, and they had great wealth, they used mercenaries from quite a few parts of the ancient world.

more info on Carthaginian mercenaries here

however it isn't totally accurate, I agree, because Numidians offered a more elite cavalry rather than an elite foot infantry

you are right, as the their force was made up a lot of mecrs, most noteably as you mention the spanish iberian mecrs. This is also why i like Rome:Total War so much. they got alot of the Carthage history and fighting force correct. However, I must disagree with you that Carthage wasn't very militarstic. While, it wasn't their number one priority, it was in fact important. The Punic Wars are a testament to that, as well as their famed harbor, housing numbers of warships never before seen at that time. Also, it's improtant to mention how the Romans couldn't even though the Carthagian sea technology until they salvaged some of their ships. I still firmly believe that if some aspects of Hannibal's march to Rome were handled differently, history would tell a MUCH different story in school ^_^

 

[Argetnyx]

theres the war elephants again! this time with the Carthaginians

 

[Taras Bulba]

I believe that Hannibal, despite his fears, if he went straight for Rome (perhaps by sea rather than by the Alps) and sacked Rome he could've conquered Rome... instead, his dancing around the capital, pillaging, weakened his chances as he went of his army going to win the war

 

[Argetnyx]

thats true of a lot of wars in history

 

[mythmonster2]

I thought he couldn't capture Rome because it was too heavily fortified?

 

[Hasdrubal Barca]

Hannibal had no navy to ship an 80,000 men army with 20,000 cavalry and 70 elephants, besides the romans conquered Sardinia, Corsica and Sicily from the first punic war and carthage itself was weakened from the"Mercenary Wars" that broke out after Carthage lost his possessions and gold&silver reserves to Rome, many historians believe that the merc wars were financed by Rome itself to prepare for the final invasion on the city of carthage itself, so you see, Hamilcar Barca (Hannibal Barca´s father) knew this, because he defeated the mercs leader and captured it, and invaded Spain the years that followed in order to raize Carthage´s wealth once again for rearming its people.

Plus, Hannibal Barca´s strength was in land, not sea, Rome´s weakness was in the north, not the center or south. Marching straight to Rome and besieging the capital was not possible because of Carthage non-support of the campaign.

In another point of view, Carthage&Utica didn´t support Hannibal because they felt the correct strategy was not to attack but to finish the conquer of entire Spain and North Africa, rebuild its navy and gradually retake it´s former colonies.

The word "mercenary" are also miss used, since in the begginning this "sytem" was adopted to founf colonies, Carthage was surrounded by desert, barren lands and despite its agricultural achievemts(3 different crops in one season from the same field), the city had reached its population limit, Numidia were numerous and controlled the remaining land, so the only way to keep growing was to enlist these people to serve oversea (giving them carrer and financial security) and then providing them with citizenship after the military service was over in the form of overseas colonies.

As for Hannibal, he did in fact be-segied Rome after the capture of Capua in the south, but as he once remarked, the sheer size and tickness of the city walls made it impossible for his army of 40,000 men (now weakened) to take it, it had too much inhabitants that could be drafted and sent again and again against its siege forces, supply lines and so on.

Hannibal´s strategy was a sound one, by defeating army after army he did "recruit" many supporters among the local cities and tribes, gauls, macedonians and was counting on the defection of the roman cities to his side, like he did in Spain, the problem was that roman colonies had a far better treatment of its citizens and thus, the strenght from unity defeated Hannibal, had the romans been weaker or unfair with his allies/citizens and history would be different but not for the best.

It´s not only one, but several roman and greek writers of the time that mention the atrocities commited by Carthage´s preists to its bloody icons including child sacrifices, some disagree but the accounts date from before the first punic war....there are also some strange accounts in occupied Spain from carthaginian practices and revolts were always breaking....

The destruction of Carthage itself and the burning of the city and the spread of salt in the ground is also puzzling, the romans were known to the ruthless with those who harmed them, but they did craved for conquer more then sheer destruction of a powerfull city they could just capture.

The question can be found in Pizarro in South America as the conquistadores arrived at the Mayan capital, what did they found there that made them decide that this people was better of extinguished....

Another proff is the lack of support for Carthage from his colonies when the 3rd Punic war broke out, i guess they weren´t that popular afterall, but then again, people tend to defect to the strongest...

 

[Argetnyx]

you have been doing you're research

 

[Taras Bulba]

I thought he couldn't capture Rome because it was too heavily fortified?

he thought it was too heavily fortified for his army....


@Hasdrubal Barca-yes he did finally attack Rome, and it isn't necessary to ship all of his troops, just a bulk of them, or more important parts of his army (i.e.-war elephants and elite cavalry) to avoid their loss when crossing the alps. while he should've been avoiding a full scale battle (like the Romans were doing, to avoid more losses) and saved his force to besiege Rome. Hannibal could've easily surrounded Rome, and pretty much blockaded it off, and weakened it, and with a stronger army, might've been able to take it, and if he controlled the capital, and the government of the Roman Republic, I believe alot of the rest might've become chaotic and would've left the Roman army/lands in disarray, making them easier to either A, make alliances with, or B, defeat them easier.... but that's just what I believe could've happened...

 

[Argetnyx]

a lot of great military leaders were put down because of bad decisions from higher authority, like Erwin Rommel, and im thinking its the same with Hannibal

 

[CarthageFTW]

he thought it was too heavily fortified for his army....


@Hasdrubal Barca-yes he did finally attack Rome, and it isn't necessary to ship all of his troops, just a bulk of them, or more important parts of his army (i.e.-war elephants and elite cavalry) to avoid their loss when crossing the alps. while he should've been avoiding a full scale battle (like the Romans were doing, to avoid more losses) and saved his force to besiege Rome. Hannibal could've easily surrounded Rome, and pretty much blockaded it off, and weakened it, and with a stronger army, might've been able to take it, and if he controlled the capital, and the government of the Roman Republic, I believe alot of the rest might've become chaotic and would've left the Roman army/lands in disarray, making them easier to either A, make alliances with, or B, defeat them easier.... but that's just what I believe could've happened...

I agree with you, however I don't think he could have marched through southern Italy into Rome. The Romans already had Sicily and I would've been hard to transport that large of an army without any1 noticing. The funny thing I find about Carthage is that it's was attacked by their allies, the Numedians, the spanish barbarians, and Rome all at once. Talk about bad luck.

edit:

you have been doing you're research

nah, he just plays A LOT of Rome:Total War

 

[Taras Bulba]

I agree with you, however I don't think he could have marched through southern Italy into Rome. The Romans already had Sicily and I would've been hard to transport that large of an army without any1 noticing. The funny thing I find about Carthage is that it's was attacked by their allies, the Numedians, the spanish barbarians, and Rome all at once. Talk about bad luck.

Carthage, last I knew, had alliances with Syracuse, which might've come in handy, but I think a quick capture of Sicily wouldn't have been that difficult to make a base of operations from, allowing easier passage to the Roman capital...

and the Spanish Barbarians were their enemies. Carthage was trying to subjugate Iberian tribes, and trying to assimilate the land into their own Empire, but Hannibal dropped that in order to take care of whom he thought was the greater threat (which in reality it was) to Rome.

 

[Argetnyx]

soon there will be a 'History' thread section......

 

[Taras Bulba]

soon there will be a 'History' thread section......

sooner than you might think

 

[CarthageFTW]

Carthage, last I knew, had alliances with Syracuse, which might've come in handy, but I think a quick capture of Sicily wouldn't have been that difficult to make a base of operations from, allowing easier passage to the Roman capital...

and the Spanish Barbarians were their enemies. Carthage was trying to subjugate Iberian tribes, and trying to assimilate the land into their own Empire, but Hannibal dropped that in order to take care of whom he thought was the greater threat (which in reality it was) to Rome.

I know, I wasn't saying the spanish barbarians were their allies, I was talking about the Numedians (dang back stabbers ><)

soon there will be a 'History' thread section......

sooner than you might think

awwwwsooommmeee

 

[Argetnyx]

awwwwsooommmeee

you stole my word