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Revolution: what's your experience?

Discussion in 'Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn' started by 45°38'N-13°47'E, Feb 23, 2015.

  1. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    One thing that I think would make Revolutions more bearable in its current form is to increase the revolution index change for putting down a revolt. That way, you wouldn't see cities so tied up in revolt after revolt if you put the rebels down quickly enough. RevEvents.py seems to be the controlling file here.
     
  2. Sebastian2203

    Sebastian2203 Chieftain

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    Is there any way to make the game reuse *DEAD* civilizations? I was very cruel to the new starting minor civs and I basically used up the whole civilization pool.
    I am playing on a large map.

    And I think it just effectively halts the RevDMC features out of the game because until now the AI´s had at least some troubles with revolutions with resulted in some empires splitting up, but now it just spawn barbarians which often raze the cities and that´s all.
     
  3. Rezca

    Rezca The Greatest Jaggi

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    I'd prefer it reuse nations more frequently than using barbarians too, when available. It goes through new leaders/nations way too quickly.

    > Gets a revolution in some border cities, A babylonian leader appears.
    > He shows up a few times, then Portugal rises up from the same cities.
    > He shows up a few times, then its just disorganized barbs for the next few generations until the revolts die entirely.

    Pretty much the case for every recurring rebellion. A leader will pop up, stick around for a few revolts, then the cities either get over their rebellions, start spawning a new completly unrelated leader, or start spawning barbarians instead. The leaderpool gets used up so quickly D:
     
  4. Pepo

    Pepo Chieftain

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    Civ reusing make for weird scenarios were cultures reappears in occupy cities. A much better solution would be to both increase the number of civs in-game and the amount of possible civs per game by editing the DLL file needed
     
  5. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    Revolutions is supposed to reincarnate dead players if that civilization had culture on nearby plots. I have definitely had dead civs reincarnate when a city I captured from them revolts.
     
  6. Sebastian2203

    Sebastian2203 Chieftain

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    Maybe my English is not good enough but I did not completely understand what are you saying, specifically the first sentence.
    Why would it be weird? When a civ dies and there are enough barbarian cities above the settling limit/there is a revolution, the game should just re-use the name or whatever. It will be a completely new civ, with no diplomatic memory, new technologies etc. just using the same name (Maybe they could make it an America Two or something better like New/Renewed/Resurrected/Revived America)

    Yes, but I feel like a city which you settle on your own should not be robbed of the ability to split off creating a new non-barbarian civilization.

    Right now there are fourteen dead civilizations in my game, and half of the new world continent is filled with barbarian cities which would have already settled into minors if there was any more civilizations available.

    Yes it can be a little weird when you kill "English Tribe" then you might hit into them again later, but it would really just allow the core features of RevDMC run longer.
     
  7. Pepo

    Pepo Chieftain

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    when civs died, the culture of their cities doesn't, so that when they rise again there will be cities which will become rebellious due to having different culture. That's why I'm against reusing civs: if the new world get filled with old worlds civs, cities in the old world with different cultures will rebel and , as you can imagine, destroy all the immersion. Reusing civs should only be use when in the rebellious cities they have a cultural presence and thus it makes sense that the revolutionaries want to recreate their original state
     
  8. Sebastian2203

    Sebastian2203 Chieftain

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    Ah I get it now.

    Well, I have been toying around in the AND files and I somehow managed to manually insert two identical English civilizations into 41th and 42th civilization slot.
    And I saved my game into world builder, then loaded the "scenario" which was now available and the game really allowed me to select TWO identical civilizations. (I only gave them different leaders, Stalin and Peter..)

    Civ4ScreenShot0026.JPG

    But when I started up the game, I was immediately declared defeated and game ended so....

    When I decided to play as one of the civs that have been already established, the two civs I have "artificially" inserted have been shown as *DEAD* and after few turns of intentionally angering my own cities, I have been unable to make them emerge as this New English civilization, I guess the game really thinks they are dead. Maybe just copy-pasting the civ into empty slot does not make it an unique entity and it still shares the death of the "original" one, I dunno.

    Civ4ScreenShot0028.JPG

    Anyway

    Dear developers of RAND, I like your mod.
    Would it be possible to make the game fill out empty slots with already used civilizations, but do it in such a way that the game would recognize them as a separate entities? To avoid such cultural issues as the Pepo stated?
     
  9. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Chieftain

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    45° is working on a new dll with much more civs slots (100?). That will probably solve these problems you have mentioned. But that will take time on his part so be patient :)
     
  10. Sebastian2203

    Sebastian2203 Chieftain

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    I am patiently waiting and will do so.

    But I have this idea that you could maybe borrow from other mods?

    In Rhye´s and Falls of Civilizations, there is this "Independent" civ that seems to be everywhere before they turn into normal civ.

    Maybe you could make it so that all the minor civs do not have true "identity" but are all independent? I think this would save space for those civs which really develop and make it into a full fledged civ.
     
  11. ElderDarkDragon

    ElderDarkDragon Chieftain

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    My experience was overall a positive one. I played on a low difficulty because I wanted to get a feel for the mod in general and didn't have much experience with Civ IV to begin with. It was pretty easy for me once I got the right civics going but the AI had a lot of trouble. I think all of them had a few revolts as they grew bigger and my greatest rival never had more than eight or nine cities. There were a ton of civs still in the game by the time it ended though, well over double what I started with.
    My next game I'm going without vassal states though. There was a lot of "so and so became vassal" and then several turns later "so and so renounced their protection" and then later they would go back to being a vassal again or just rejoin the main civ only to revolt again a little later. I know that's a regular Civ IV option but it doesn't seem to work with the RevMod very well. I was never a big fan of the concept anyway.
    I had several cities turned over to me and some that revolted and joined, that was a lot of fun but I'm not sure how much of that was culture flipping and how much to do with the mod itself.
    I like the flavor it adds for sure. It's one more thing to balance on top of everything else and it makes you seriously consider certain civics. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out on a higher difficulty level.
     
  12. jsk119

    jsk119 Chieftain

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    I find Revolutions to make Emperor games much easier, all AI tech very quickly. The rebel leaders included, they have one city with a few units you can conquer them and scoop up 2-3 expensive techs. I do play with "Require complete kills" enabled, so that is why I am able to trade with them after taking their only city which makes AI give up every last penny.
     
  13. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Chieftain

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    Just wonder...
    Mmm, that's kind of cheating IMO. I can remove tech trading for civs that don't own a city anymore.
     
  14. RyoHazuki

    RyoHazuki Chieftain

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    Agree with this.
     
  15. Tolni

    Tolni trust the pillars with your s e c r e t s

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    Well, you can still get some pretty nice bonuses from 1-city minors, especially if Flexible Difficulty is turned on and the AI turns to Settler.
     
  16. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Chieftain

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    Just wonder...
    I just discovered another glitch in the Revolution code, I'm fixing it in the next update: right now, revolution level is scaled by empire size, so bigger empires are more unstable. But there's a catch: after a certain size, this factor remains the same. While it's acceptable it works like this, values are totally out of scale. So for example on a large map revolution level is increasing if the civ has a size let's say from 1 to 10 cities (approximately). But a civ with 35 cities has the same revolution level of a city with 20 or 11 cities. I don't think this is correct, so I'll make rev level gradually increase with empire size beyond the current level (it will not change for smaller empires).
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
  17. nionios

    nionios Chieftain

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    Good note.
    I think that everybody understands local (in)stability BUT what exactly is the empire stability?How does it work in the game?
     
  18. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Chieftain

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    Good question, I'm not 100% sure but there are factors affecting the whole empire; for example when you build a national/world wonder, all your empire becomes more stable (the closer to the building city, the higher the stability score). I think there are other parameters connected to financial situation, army strenght and others.
     
  19. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    I'm trying to figure that out myself. There is a long updateCivStability function that generates the national stability value, but I still don't know how it fits into determining individual cities' revolution changes. Wonders have a different effect; they lower all cities' revolution indexes on completion, but they don't seem to have an ongoing effect.

    If you're doing revolution tweaking, can you tell me if the value cultIdx in updateCivStability does anything for national stability? It's calculated in lines 1869-1874, as the square root of your cultural spending, +1/3rd if your leader is Creative. But once calculated, it doesn't seem to do anything except get passed to the debug log. There is a separate use of cultIdx at lines 1492-1497, but that is used for local stability from culture.
     
  20. quikesan

    quikesan Chieftain

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    Hi
    Here is my last experience with Revolutions:
    At the moment I am playing in a Giant Map, Epic speed, Prince difficulty.
    Until middle age, Revolutions were bearable. A bit annoying, but bearable. The last built city (out of 8) kept rebelling from time to time but around classical era, revolutions in the city became less frequent (I guess due to increase culture in the city, better road connection...). After that, I conquered 2 cites of a neighbor, close to my borders. At the beginning the rebel a lot, but I manage to overcome that period, and now that my culture is almost 100% in those two cities they don't revolt anymore.

    But around the middle age/renaissance I have started to colonizing and revolutions in the colony cites are just unbearable. The colonies revolt so frequently that they can barely build nothing. I have a robust economy, and I have selected the civics that decrease instability (Republic, Senate, Liberal, Coinage, Volunteer Army, State Church, Public Works, Appeasement) (I guess I could increase the civics even more by choosing Liberalism instead Coinage, and Secularism instead of State Church). I also have literally, all resources available in the world at the moment (except potatoes and whales), so all cities have plenty of happiness. Every time the cities rebel I win against them ("disorganized rebels" in this case). I have colonies in the continent next to mine (around 14 squares away), so they are not even very far away. All my cites have my official religion, and I control the religion's holy city (with the special religion building in it).
    Even all that, as said, they rebel all the time, leaving no time to build much. I rarely bribe them (should I do it more often?) but even if my empire is huge, if every city is super happy, and there is no other way to increase stability, I don't see why they keep rebelling all the time. I have also thought about just giving them independence, but I can't. I just can cede one of the cities to another civ (I guess because they have some culture in it?). I guess it would be a nice option to create a vassal out of your colonies. Something like the Viceroys were to the Spanish empire.

    Anyway, is this amount of rebelling normal?
    I think that at some point it takes the fun away, since I cannot focus in anything else than preparing for the next uprising (even though everyone is happy :confused:)
     

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