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Revolution: with BarbarianCiv, Rebellion, AIAutoPlay

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by jdog5000, May 16, 2006.

  1. Twisted_Stixx

    Twisted_Stixx Chieftain

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    For some strang reason I can't seem to get this mod to work any more even with a fresh install...here is a copy of the .ini file
    Spoiler :

    [CONFIG]

    ; This mod is only for single player games
    SinglePlayerOnly = 0

    ; Allow public maps to be used with this mod
    AllowPublicMaps = 1

    ; Mod Image file
    ImageFile = 0

    ; Name of Mod
    Name = Revolution

    ; Description of Mod
    Description = Generic Mod


    ; ------------------------------------------------------
    [BarbarianCiv]

    Enable = True

    ; Turn on Debug output
    DebugMode = False

    ; Enable popup when Barbarian cities settle down
    BarbSettlePopup = True

    ; Radius inside which is considered a cities neighbor
    CityRadius = 10

    ; Change odds of barb settling down
    Modifier = 1.00

    ; Base odds of Military buildup
    BaseMilitaryOdds = 0.5

    ; Former barbarians get all techs known by this fraction
    BarbTechFrac = 0.60

    ; Increase techs that builder type barbs get
    BuilderTechModifier = 1.00

    ; Fraction of civs to kill at game start (Python only)
    KillFraction = .25

    ; Allow civs to come back as a minor civ
    AllowMinor = False

    ; If a city has culture, spawn a new civ with same art style as highest culture player
    BarbCivsByStyle = True

    ; A militaristic barb civ on its own island will declare war on the first civ it meets within this window of turns
    MaxVikingStyleWindow = 30

    ; ------------------------------------------------------
    [Rebellion]
    Enable = True

    ; Turn on Debug output
    DebugMode = False

    ; Threshold of unrest before rebellion
    Threshold = 400

    ; Allow cities with no unhappy citizens to rebel if other factors are strong enough
    AllowHappyRebellions = False

    ; Always spawn rebels as Barbarians
    RebelsAsBarbs = False

    ; Value past to random number generator for rebellion odds
    Roll = 10000

    ; Min number of turns between rebellions
    Turns = 8

    ; Rebellion frequency modifier
    Modifier = 1.0

    ; Size of rebel army modifier
    RebelSizeModifier = 1.00

    ; How much of an effect land area has on chance of rebels
    LandModifier = 1.00

    ; ----------------------------------------------------
    [Revolution]
    Enable = False

    ; Turn on Debug output
    DebugMode = True

    ; Enable different types of civ splits on capital captured

    ; Sufficiently powerful colonies may break away (not implemented)
    ColonySplit = False

    ; Influenced or cultured cites may break away (not implemented)
    CulturalSplit = False

    ; Unhappy cities may break away (not implemented)
    UnhappySplit = False

    ; "Classic" chop the empire in half
    EmpireSplit = True

    ; Thresholds for splitting

    ; Civ must have this to be splitable (includes just lost capital)
    MinCitiesForSplit = 5

    ; Percent of cities nationality
    MinNationality = 15

    ; Absolute culture count built in city
    MinCulture = 50

    ; Percent of power of homeland that colony must have
    MinPowerPercent = 20

    ; Radius considered close to other cities
    CloseRadius = 10

    ; ----------------------------------------------------
    [AIAutoPlay]
    Enable = True

    ; Turn on Debug output
    DebugMode = False

    ; -----------------------------------------------------
    [ChangePlayer]
    Enable = False

    ; Turn on Debug output
    DebugMode = True
     
  2. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    I'm not sure I understand what is in that picture ... you started a new game or are trying to continue one in progress? When did your civ become the Barbarians?

    The game will have problems if you control only the Barbarian State ... basically, it will think the game is over but never allow your turn to complete. This would also screw up auto play. Is that what's going on here?
     
  3. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    This is definitely possible ... I'll add it to the queue :p Since it's really in a different vein, I'll probably make it its own file ... What kind of sum do you think is reasonable? Maybe around 50 for small cities, up to say 200+ for big ones?
     
  4. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    :)
    Another feature ... the Americans share the European civ Art Style. Since there was culture in the city, the newly settled barb civ will (if possible) be a civ with the same art style. Same holds true for rebels.
     
  5. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    That is very odd ... One thing to check, in your Revolution.ini file is Enable = True? With a capital T? I think lower case could screw it up, not sure.

    If that's not it, could you send me the save? Either PM it or post it here and I'll look into it.
     
  6. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    Should be pretty reasonable I think.. I was thinking it might be a factoring of buildings, population, culture, etc. It should definitely take a large cut out of your treasury. It would be good if the value were readily accessible for easy tweaking should it turn out to be too low or too high.

    Nice. I didn't like in Civ2 how the Russians would split into two new countries one of which would be India. Didn't make a whole lot of sense. :goodjob: for going above and beyond!
     
  7. paratroopa

    paratroopa Chieftain

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    this mod is a simply amazing idea. Mad kudos to you on this one
     
  8. Padmewan

    Padmewan King

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    Is there any way to test whether the new leader of the civ behaves per the XML coding for that leader?

    I suppose I could try this by giving a leader a crazy preference for Workshops, switch leaders by command, and then see if it builds Workshops?
     
  9. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    Well, if we're talking about AI, that would be one way.

    If you mean in terms of just the bonuses of personality traits, try having a revolution with a new religious leader and see if its instantaneous.
     
  10. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    Well, that's all in order ... My bet then is that the game cannot find the Revolution.ini file ... when that happens, the default for all the components is off. What is the full path where you placed the mod files?
     
  11. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    I don't know of any way to check the AI's preferences from Python ... in my tests, the traits do now change. They were obviously not designed to change, for a little while during development changing the leader would result in the civ getting both the old and new set of perks!

    While what you suggest is certainly a possibility, one could probably switch a leader who doesn't care much about religion to Isabella (crazy zealot that she is) and see if the civ's attitude towards others changes appropriately. Don't have time to check it out now myself ...
     
  12. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    So far my games with this have gone fairly well. I've had several rebellions so far. I've noted two problems however...

    1. I've had two rebellions occur in my capital... should this be happening? I mean, I could understand a revolution where the country might undergo a change of government or something, but I'm not sure if it makes much sense for the capital city to potentially break away from its own empire.

    2. I bribed the revolutionaries even when I had insufficient funds to pay for it and I went deep into the red so that I actually had a negative treasury... I mean, I've heard of deficit spending, but I'm assuming this is a bug :)
     
  13. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    I originally had an explicit decrease in odds of rebellion for the capital, with the same reasoning you expressed ... it's your capital, maybe people living there should put up with you more. But then I added a distance from capital component, and since it's zero for the capital, thought that might be enough of a capital credit. Here's how this part works in full detail:
    Spoiler :

    The total land area of your civ is compared with (the total land area of the map) divided by (map's default number of civs). This ratio is then multiplied by 500 and is your civ size factor. For scale, each unhappy person is 400 rebellion points. So, if you control your "fair share" of the world, this base is 500, if you're twice as big as you should be, then 1000.

    This factor is then modified for each city. First I take your civs land area and, pretending it's a circle, compute what should be the "radius" of your empire. For each city, I find the ratio between this radius and the city's actual distance to the capital with a force upper limit of 3. The civ size factor is then multiplied by (.5 + this ratio of dist to radius/2).

    After all this, oversized civs have a large civ size factor, but cities on the outer fringes (or distant colonies) feel the effects of this size far more. The capital always gets civ size/2.

    So, the odds of your capital rebelling, all other things being equal, should be lower. However, since your capital is often your biggest city, it usually gets unhappy more frequently. Perhaps I'll bring back the capital credit, maybe have it offset one unhappy person ...

    Another thing I contemplated whether to allow ... you might have noticed the popup tells you that you don't have enough in the treasury, but still lets you do it. If it felt like a bug to you, that's reason enough to take it out. I just remembered something like deficit spending was allowed after currency (from those little tips while the game is loading) ... but I agree, it doesn't feel like should be able to do it.

    By any chance, have you seen a dead civ reincarnated as rebels? Or have the rebels managed to capture a city? Thanks for posting your thoughts!
     
  14. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    It's not so much the fact that the people might revolt, it's more the kind of revolution that might occur. While I expect the people of my capital to put up with my slightly more, I also know that if I have really lousy policies, they'll be the first ones to feel them and the most affected :)

    But essentially there are two kinds of revolts that could and do take place in teh world: 1) A faction trying to split away from the main country and form a completely independent nation. 2) Two factions struggling for control of the same government.

    So I could see this second option applying for the capital but not the first option. As I said: why would people break away from their own empire? Now, for what I eventually envision for my mod, there would be several different kinds of revolts that could potentially take place... they are as such:

    • Civics-forcing revolution - This does not overthrow you as leader or cause you to lose cities but rather simply changes the civics of your government to something the people can live with. This would be comparable to say the earliest stages of the French and Russian Revolution where reforms were forced upon the monarch but he was still allowed to remain on the throne.
    • Coup d'etat Level 1 - A coup d'etat level 1 is when you are overthrown, but that's it... effectively, the AI replaces you as being in control of the civilization... you can, however, get back on the throne but it'll take some work. I would, in fact, like to make it so that for those who really want to challenge themselves, you would START the game with this relationship as though you were some noble in the lower echelons of your civ's government and have to work your way up.
    • Coup d'etat Level 2 - Would have you ousted from the country altogether. You would then be sent to the nearest friendly nation.
    • Coup d'etat Level 3 - This one is a game-ender. You are so thoroughly hated by your people that the take everything from you including your head... it's hard to come back into power when you're dead.
    • Separatist movement - The people of a certain city or region rise up in arms to form a completely separate country from yours.

    In any of these cases, the event can be fast and relatively bloodless or if the conspirators lack the power in the national government/capital lead to open civil war. In that case, the empire is divided between two factions. Units and cities are divided up and the sides slug it out until one of them surrenders.

    No, I haven't seen that although I keep getting notices of a lot of civs dying.. much more so than in a regular game, so I assume that rebellions must be occuring in other civs. I hadn't noticed any repetition in this however. I'll keep a closer eye on that in the future. I always try to buy off my rebels, since I wasn't really sure what would happen if I didn't..
     
  15. Blazer6

    Blazer6 King

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    Instead of how the Coup d'etat Level 3 ends the game, why not make you a different leader with the different traits? If that doesn't work, then you can play from the barbarian perspective.
     
  16. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    Well, levels 1&2 both have a different leader with different traits running the country. Level 3 is a very extreme case. You'd have to really be mismanaging your country to get to level 3.
     
  17. Blazer6

    Blazer6 King

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    I mean that the leader you chose from the start is gone forever but the game will not end.
     
  18. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    Some very interesting ideas! I had also been thinking about two different kinds of splits (hence the seperate Rebellion and Revolution components), but with a slightly different format. My concept was that rebellions would mimic "take to hills!", quasi-guerrilla insurrections that would have to then try to capture a city. After your arguments, I agree this seems a little out of place in capitals.

    The plan for the revolution component was to model coups, colony seperatists, or occupied land revolts, where you'ld actually lose control of some of your cities and have to win them back. This style definitely seems more fitting for capitals.

    I like your multiple tiered coup concept, what ideas did you have for what kind of "work" those out of power could do to get back into the throne? Some kind of a text adventure where you try to regain power or something would be pretty cool IMO, but that's kind of pie-in-the-sky ...

    In terms of things that I can do in a more reasonable time frame, you've definitely get me comtemplating the forced civics changing. From a gameplay perspective, I think it might be better to present the player with a choice though: do the change or either several of your cities "shut-down" from demonstrations or even a full on revolt takes place. Given these options, almost everyone would take the change, but they'll feel like they had a choice ;)

    Then, for coups, maybe there could be two kinds, or again you could be presented with a choice of abdicate or fight:

    - Fight: In the coup, you lose control of several of your core cities and have to fight off the revolutionaries and try to regain your cities. Your homeland would be torn apart by war.
    - Flight: You lose power of your whole empire in the coup and go into exile or hiding or something. Then, after some meaningful number of turns (20-50 on epic), you would "magically" regain control of your empire. However, during the "down time" you could be offered leadership of any rebellions or revolutions that occur in the game ... this mechanic would essentially be like the current AIAutoPlay thing, but you'd sometimes get popups saying 'would you like to lead the ___ rebels?'

    It would totally be possible (and I'd been thinking of adding) to add options in AIAutoPlay to present the take control of rebel popups. This would allow you to present yourself with an extra challenge (kind of like the starting off as a noble thing you mentioned).
     
  19. Blazer6

    Blazer6 King

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    How about influencing the rebellions in other civs? Sharing borders with another civ who is in disorder can become very lucrative if you supply either side. A revolution that you finance may lead those cities and units to join your empire. If you support the current civ, then they can give you diplomacy points and various forms of payment.
    Other advantages in taking sides could be a permanent alliance or a vassalage (however that works) option to the rebels.
     
  20. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    Well, there's a few other concepts attached here that I should flesh out first.

    • Nobles - Nobles are subnational leaders of each one of your cities. Every city in the world has a noble. Think of it as a fleshed out version of the city governor. Depending on your civics, they might be called nobles, princes, governors, magistrates... you get the idea. They are the people you have to deal with to stay in power, and all of them are looking for power themselves.
    • Families - Each noble and player has a "family". Basically, you get a random number of offspring at the beginning of the game between 1 and 3. And you have a spouse. Now, while the limits of what these will be able to do is somewhat up in the air right now, the sure purpose is to be able to marry them off to other civ leaders and nobles in order to improve relations. So if you make a trade deal with the leader of Civ X, you'll see in your relations with them a +1 or 2 for the political marriage between one of your offspring and theirs or you can marry the offspring directly to the leader. Or take on an extra wife yourself ;)
    • Swiss Bank Accounts - This was a concept from the game Tropico that I thought might be interesting in civ. Basically, you'd be taking money per turn from the national income and putting it into a separate private account for your player apart from the national treasury. So if you get ousted from power, you've still got that lovely little nest egg to keep you in the game.
    • Assets - So now you have some money... what to do with it? Invest! What I am hoping to be able to allow is the purchasing of buildings in cities by nobles and the player. You can buy up banks, factories, newspapers, tv stations... Barracks, Castles, Walls and things of that sort are always government buildings and thus cannot be purchased. Anyway, so if you own a factory, you can control what it produces. If you control a newspaper, you can control what kind of information it prints. So you can print information that will sway the public to your side and ready you to reclaim power.
    • Government Positions - In any government, there are particular positions available for the nobles to occupy... Vizier, General, etc. So if you're in power, you can tap someone for a job and you improve your relationship with them... similarly, if you're NOT in power, they can tap you and move you into a position where you can go even higher. Actually, you gave me that idea when you suggested separating roles between AI and human for unit movement, techs, city production, etc.
    • Citizens - There are obviously citizens already in the game, but they are in desperate need of fleshing out... Most of the above stuff has yet to be added to my website (see my sig) but the citizens are laid out there. So basically, you'd have options to appeal to the masses or appeal to the more powerful citizens in society. Your choice of civics is the main means of determining that. I'm planning on reducing the number of civic options per category but increasing the number of categories to allow for very malleable government types. So you may only have 3 choices but 10 different civics categories.

    Naturally, this sounds like a whole lot of work ahead of me... and indeed it is. It also probably sounds like a whole lot more micromanagement. I think it's really a more of redirection of attention. I mean, for people who want a small fast game of civ, this is not for them. For those who are only interested in war, this is also probably not for them. But for those who want longer games and more political wheeling and dealing, this will be good for them. I mean, some people who make longer games simply decrease the year increment in the early part of the game and then just throw in a lot more buildings, wonders, etc. and tons more units, etc.

    This mod actually adds very few new improvements and units, and indeed, the other component, the population component means that unless you're running a communist state, you're not responsible for a lot of the building construction. And no matter what kind of state you're running, the population spreads and founds new cities without you. And there's no more specialists and assigning workers to tiles, etc.

    Civ has always been a civilization vs. civilization experience. The end of the game is when one has completed the ultimate objective or when time has run out in which case the highest scoring civ wins. Consequently, the player has always had a role of something more than leader of a civilization. He is in some ways a god... he builds ALL of the buildings, he has his workers construct ALL improvements, he sends people out to build ALL cities, and he controls his armies directly and completely. And that's fine. But what I want is to redefine the player... to make him the leader of the civilization, or at least a dynasty... so it becomes not just about how your civ ranks compared to another one but about YOUR personal struggle for power and keeping it.

    So you could start out as a noble and then rise up through the ranks in your civ.. or you could sell out your civ and become some other civ's administrator over what was once a sovereign nation. And then what? Rebel? Make a new country with you as its head? Or rise up in the other empire and take the whol enchilada for yourself? Got ousted? In exile? Get another civ to help you get back into power!

    I mean, to some degree, it's the logical conclusion of an in-depth rebellion system. I mean, losing cities as it is can be disastrous and can immediately set you back irrevocably behind the other civs. But, if you divorce the civ from the player, it gives the player other options in the worst case scenario.

    Sounds good to me, so there might have to be something to determine what civics are more popular.

    The abdication or fight idea sounds to be the best I've heard so far.
     

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