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Revolution: with BarbarianCiv, Rebellion, AIAutoPlay

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by jdog5000, May 16, 2006.

  1. Samuelson

    Samuelson Prince

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    Dom Pedro have you should start up a thread on this site for your Age of Man mod. Also what stage of development are you in on that mod because I looked at the web site and it looked very interesting.
     
  2. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    Found a bug today where leader personalities would not updating in some cases ... has been fixed and will be in the next release. Iterative process ...
     
  3. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    There definitely needs to be a way to influence both the beginning of a rebellion and how it plays out. I intend to add some kind of a spy mission to incite a rebellion (will cost a pretty penny unless they're already inclined to rise up). In terms of influencing how the rebels fair, some of the things you suggest are already possible. You can certainly give the rebels money and sign other deals with them. However, you can't give them units until they capture a city (have no cultural borders) ... if you gift them a few things, they will quickly like you. Since they'll be pretty weak, you should then be able to get them to agree to a vassal state or PA deal.

    I'm also contemplating whether/how to create a deeper level of assimilation ... if the city rebels because it would really rather be in your empire (culture and religious reasons), then if the rebels succeed in taking the city perhaps they should then all join your empire. This sets up a rather strange diplomatic situation though ... should the old owner of the city just have to accept that the city is now yours? And should the rebels then cease to exist, or should they continue the fight? My current thought is to essentially mimic the culture flip mechanic, when the rebels succeed they (if some condition is met) then ask to join your empire and you can rebuff or accept.
     
  4. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    That is ambitious! That mechanic reminds me of the family functionality in Rome Total War ... although the competition for control between families in that game was perhaps different than what you're thinking (they were in many ways like competing civs). I think the upcoming new version of Mideval TW will have similar style. Have you played any of the TW games?

    Best of luck, and I'll certainly be very interested to see where you can get with this!

    Cool, I'll post more specifics in a few weeks when that aspect of the mod starts to come together.
     
  5. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    Well, I think this brings a lot broader issues of diplomacy in this case. One of the things I thought was odd was that the AI never seems to care when you accept one of their revolting cities into your empire. I mean, for me, unless I've got a huge empire and that city was some small insignificant territory, that's the signal for me to start a military build up and get ready to take that city back and the whole rest of their country along with it.

    In short, pretty much ANYTHING you do to support the rebels is going to incur the wrath of the civ they came from. This is especially true if you annex the fledgling republic. I seem to recall a certain territory breaking away from a country breaking away from one country and joining another and that leading to a war between the one who lost the territory and the one who gained it. And in the American Civil War as well, Britain and France's indirect support to the Confederacy soured relations between the USA and the European powers for years... and had they gone the extra mile and officially recognized the Confederacy, it might have even led to war.

    So I would say that annexing a rebel state while they're still fighting for their independence should be an insta-declaration of war against the country they're splitting from. On the other hand, supporting them indirectly and then annexing them after they've won their independence and hammered out a peace treaty out to really worsen your relationship with their original owner but not necessarily an automatic declaration of war.

    I've not played any of the Total War games, but I'd like to try them out some time. Certainly the ancient Roman and feudal families of Europe were my inspiration for the "Nobles". And indeed this is ambitious especially since I have no real coding experience and am just sort of muddling my way through this. I have experience with 3D modeling but coding on this kind of level is new to me... so up until now I've done graphics, and if I had a coder on my team (right now the team is ME :) ) I would let them handle all of that while I worked on the graphics. So hopefully through trial and error and learning from other people's code I'll get what I need out of it.

    The "noble" is an all-purpose subnational leader. Like I said, depending on the civic, it can be a lord, a high-level bureaucrat, or a regional governor... Of course, one could create all of these separate institutions that would all function differently, but I think that's really unnecessary. I think it serves well as is. For example, if you're in feudalistic form of government and you have a revolution and become a communist state (big switch obviously) but basically all of the "nobles" would be reinitiated and would be called "party leaders" or something... Same classes and functions being used by the program.. just a change in the names, titles and possibly the graphics.

    Also, any revolution that takes place essentially has a "noble" rival leading it. Btw, "revolutions" also includes peaceful elections which I know people have been wanting to see implemented in the game. In order to do that, there ahs to be some kind of competition, so I think the noble would satisfy that requirement nicely. I've enclosed one of the pictures I've made for the nobles. I think I might create a dummy interface with python to show what it would look like... could put it in the screenshots gallery of my site.
     
  6. junter

    junter Chieftain

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    Hello with this mod Revolution mod is possible that a your city can become an indipendence state ? Can someone make a fusion of this mod and the Assassin mod. In this mod is very beatiful a spy that steal technology and make a rebellion against the enemy states.
     
  7. Padmewan

    Padmewan King

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    Thanks for working on this. For me one of the most important parts of this mod will be the ability to switch personalities of a leader. (Can that already be done without this mod? Given what you've described, no?)
     
  8. junter

    junter Chieftain

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    Can you make also the spy that can steal technology from a enemy nation ? :goodjob:
     
  9. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    I can definitely say that the WWI scenario will benefit from this ability :)
     
  10. junter

    junter Chieftain

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    Can you answer me ?
     
  11. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    I didn't realize you were talking to me... this is jdog's mod. Not mine. I was just describing how I was going to utilize his for my own.
     
  12. TheeLord

    TheeLord Warlord

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    Woohoo!! Great work on this! What is the current status? When can we expect revolutions due to unhappiness factors?
     
  13. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    If you're only looking for this feature, I think someone has already done it ...

    After a quick forum search, doesn't look like it has been done well yet, but it is on TheLopez's list:
    List
    Depending on how his efforts turn out, I may add it in as an optional component. We'll see.

    EDIT: Also check out:
    Assasin Mod
     
  14. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    So yes, both traits and personality changes will work in the next version, 0.35 (after finals week ...).

    In addition, although it's not showing up in the Civ Python API I often use (), the following is apparently exposed through CyPlayer:
    Code:
    .def("getPersonalityType", &CyPlayer::getPersonalityType, "int ()")
    .def("setPersonalityType", &CyPlayer::setPersonalityType, "void (int /*LeaderHeadTypes*/ eNewValue)")
    
    Don't have time to check it out now ...
     
  15. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    Yes ... or more correctly, they can try ;) Right now they will rebel against you, so rebel units will spawn outside your city and try to take it from you. Soon a broader class of uprisings, Revolutions, will occur, where the city will break away and you'll have to fight to bring it back into the fold.

    The next update will mostly focus on features for rebellions, one of the most interesting being the option to give up all that you've worked for in building you empire and take control of the rebels instead! A for fun or challenge feature, I've enjoyed the couple test runs I've done so far. Other little tweaks to make rebellions occur only in more extreme circumstances, perks for rebels taking control of rebellious cities, fixes to some strange behavior when reincarnating a dead civ as a rebel.

    After that's done, my focus will turn to broader revolutions ...

    New spy features are a ways off ...
     
  16. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    Yeah, it definitely opens up a large can of worms ... I agree with all the points you've made. I will definitely be adding a negative relation modifier if you assimilate a rebel, but I'm hoping the Vassal state mechanisms in Warlords don't make the mother land and the vassal completely disconnected. I believe the motherland does not have to be at war with whoever the vassal is at war with, but hopefully they'll be some modifier like "-2 We don't like your vassals" ...



    While certainly different from civ, I do recommend Rome TW. It was fun, although like scenarios in civ, had limited replay for me.

    I've also thought about having some kind of rebel leader or rebel base ... either a spy-like invisible unit you could assasinate to end the rebellion, or a Warlords Ghengis Khan style nomadic base for the rebels that would generate new rebel units. While the rebel leaders sounds cool at first, the more I think about it the more difficult it sounds to do well. The rebel base is pretty interesting though ...
     
  17. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    I thought I'd give you some more feedback on the results of my testing...

    Well, you asked me before if I saw the same civ die more than once, and I didn't know at that point... continuing with that same game, I've seen the Mongolian empire die at least three times. The Mongolians as of the last turn I played (around 1906) were just being created. They had apparently completely caught up with me in terms of techs right at the outset. Also, they were at war with THREE civilizations... I don't know how that happened, but I managed to convince the other three to end their wars so I could see what would come of this fledgling nation. What I think may be the culprit is that the Mongols have, in fact, broken away as the rebels in several empires and so they were effectively still in a state of war with previous countries they'd tried to break away from. I don't know if that's the case... just throwing it out there. It could also be that the country they split away from had a Defensive Pact with the other two... but I doubt that since these were three countries with tense relationships between each other. It could also be that Kublai Khan is ambitious and violent and went to war with three civilizations mere moments after being born...

    That said, the rebellions are short-lived. I have only seen one come to fruition on its own and it did so only for a matter of two or three turns... in that case it was the Indian state that emerged out of Nara, Japan.

    One problem I have at this point with this is that I see these civs coming and going but I never have any idea where they're rebelling from. If I know the civ they're breaking away from, I'd like to have some kind of a prompt to tell me that these rebels have sprung up there. The only reason I knew who the Indians broke away from is when they captured Nara and I got a prompt about it. I still don't know who the Mongols carved themselves out of...
     
  18. jbfballrb

    jbfballrb Warlord

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    so far ive really enjoyed this mod. however, i got this message at one point in the game, and was thinking that it probably shouldnt happen, and wondered if there was some way to fix it. the barbarians settled down as barbarians. i have not come near meeting them, and so i dont know if they will interact as a normal civ yet.

     
  19. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    This is a configurable option. You can choose to allow barbs to settle down as minor civs using the AllowMinor setting in Revolution.ini, but it should default to False.

    Just to clarify what happens, there are 18 normal civs in the standard XML and two others, the Minor Nation and the Barbarian State. The mod is set to never allow the Barb cities to settle down as barbs ... just doesn't make sense. The anounced leader "Barbarian" is actually Sid, using the "leader head" from the tutorial =P
     
  20. jbfballrb

    jbfballrb Warlord

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    ah, ok, thanks. i guess i shouldve looked over what i was making true more carefully. its still a fun mod, even if my rebels are more advanced than my army
     

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