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Reworked-expanded diplomacy and World Congress

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Basileus Rhomaion, Aug 14, 2017.

  1. Basileus Rhomaion

    Basileus Rhomaion Chieftain

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    So I have been working on some new ideas and changes in my spare time and came up with a list of things I'd like to see in Civ VI (probably with the first expansion). Anything presented is subject to change and most ideas need a bit more development, therefore external ideas and suggestions are more than welcome.

    Changelog:
    Spoiler :
    18/8/2017: a) Great Diplomat list updated (removed Colin Powell and Kofi Annan, added Jean Monnet and Dag Hammarskjöld b) further diplomatic options added (vassal details, non-aggression pact) c) added emergency meetings for the World Congress d) new espionage unit added
    14/8/2017: Created.



    New district:


    Government complex: 3 buildings (City Plaza, Senate, Parliament)

    Provides Great Diplomat points per turn and influence points per turn. Gets +1 adjacency bonus from the City Center, wonders and Commercial Hub districts.

    City Plaza (classical era): +1 Great Diplomat point, +1 Housing, +2 influence points, 1 Citizen slot
    Senate (renaissance era): +1 Great Diplomat point, +2 Housing, +4 influence points, +2 Gold, 1 Citizen slot
    Parliament (modern era): +1 Great Diplomat point, +2 Housing, +6 influence points, +2 Production, +3 Gold, 1 Citizen slot

    Great Diplomats:

    1) Demosthenes (classical)
    2) Marcus Baebius Tamphilus (classical)
    3) Gan Ying (classical)
    4) Sa’d ibn Abi Waqqas (medieval)
    5) Shen Kuo (medieval)
    6) Constantine Choirosphaktes (medieval)
    7) Francesco Foscari (renaissance)
    8) Sir John Donne (renaissance)
    9) Giosafat Barbaro (renaissance)
    10) Talleyrand (industrial)
    11) Benjamin Franklin (industrial)
    12) Ioannis Kapodistrias (industrial)
    13) Abdulhak Hamid Tarhan (modern)
    14) Cristoforo Negri (modern)
    15) Tatsuo Kawai (modern)
    16) Elmira Gafarova (atomic)
    17) Emily Greene Balch (atomic)
    18) Dag Hammarskjöld (atomic)
    19) Nelson Mandela (information)
    20) Yasser Arafat (information)
    21) Jean Monnet (information) [thanks @Siptah ]

    Note: Haven't figured out each one's effects yet.

    New victory condition:

    Diplomatic victory (the World Congress is back). Victory is achieved when you become the head of the Grand Council 3 times in a row.

    The Grand Council is now a new mechanic of the World Congress where the top civs of each game (number depends on map size). Influence points in the World Congress determine which civs are considered "top civs" in order to enter the Grand Council.

    They have more leverage over decisions and gain a new type of casus belli “Peacekeeper War” which allows them to intervene in ongoing wars on one of the sides and resolve the conflict (low warmonger penalty as long as no claims are made after the conclusion). There is a vote every a set number of turns (based on game speed) where all members of congress vote on which member of the Grand Council becomes its head that amount of time. Only the head of Grand Council can veto decisions. Decisions are in general suggested by all members.

    The World Congress can ban certain resources, outlaw nukes, give eurekas to certain techs or civics or choose a “global focus operation”. Global focus operations boost something globally for all civs, for example production towards wonders, science yields, cultural output etc.

    The World Congress can be called once for each civ every a set number of turns (depending on game speed). A recent change done cannot be undone also for a set number of turns.

    City-states have less voting weight than regular civs (half of a regular vote).

    Grand Council members have the ability to call emergency meetings after some events (natural disasters if they get implemented, wars, use of nukes etc). At these emergency meetings, the Grand Councils member who called it must propose an action. If it is a natural disaster, civs can agree on sending financial aid to those affected or food. If it's a war, they can decide to declare a Peacekeeper War (must be approved by the majority).

    Civs that abstain or vote antithetically to others will create some friction on the "friendliness" axis with the other civs, for example refusing to send aid to a civ affected by a natural distaster.


    Reworked Agendas:

    Instead of changing attitude, they now act as secondary factors that encourage or discourage cooperation. For example, while not unfriendly, the AI can be less willing to conduct trade with you. Or, following the agenda with a friendly AI will have a chance of the AI giving you gifts and being more loyal throughout the game.


    Reworked diplomacy:

    1) The number of turns a type of good can be sent is now modifiable (no longer fixed at 30 turns) and this plays a role in the size of the offer that the AI will consider.

    2) Civs can now trade map information, envoys (unused, not already expended), already finished techs and civics that the other civ has not researched (only eligible if the other civ currently has the ability to research it) as well as food per turn.

    3) Ongoing trade agreements can be cancelled at any time (with a gold penalty depending on the amount of turns remaining in the deal).

    4) New “axis” for AI attitudes is added. The current attitudes are part of the “friendliness” axis (Hostile/Denounced, Unfriendly, Neutral, Friendly, Ally/Part of Friendship). The new axis adds the “interest” axis which addresses the rate and scale of interaction between the player and the AI. These statuses are: Indifferent, Ignoring, Neutral, Interested, Involved.

    5) Alliances and friendships can now only be achieved if there is at least “interested” attitude between the player and the AI. The AI can only declare war on civs that it has at least the “interested” attitude towards them. [These mostly address the out-of-nowhere nonsensical wars and alliances the AI makes with the player currently]

    6) The AI will now be significantly harder to declare war on recent allies with an exponential rate of change in willingness. Easier for the AI to gradually be able to become more friendly with a civ it has been at war with previously (no longer perpetually denounces) with also an exponential rate of change.

    7) Defeated civs in wars or smaller allies can now become your vassal. Vassals act as city-states in that they are independent, but are obligated to follow you to war. Vassals don’t lose the game just because of the vassal status. “Lord” states (civs that have vassals) have additional influence points per turn. Vassals also retain their voting power (full vote), but must always vote for what their Lord civ has voted for.

    8) Having different governments with someone no longer creates friction. Instead it has the same effect as not following one’s agenda.

    9) Having different religions is now a valid reason to start a religious war, but without the previous requirement (your cities converted), the warmonger penalty is 50% higher.

    10) Civs can now annex city-states they are the suzerain of, if a set of requirements is met.For example, an envoy theshold and having researched a certain tech or civic.

    11) An alliance may now be consisted of more than 2 civs and can have a name.

    12) Capitals can now change voluntarily by the civ controlling the involved cities for a set gold cost after a certain point in the game or via some other effect (no ideas here yet). Can only happen every a set number of turns so it cannot be spammed.

    13) New "Desire for Independence" mechanic added for vassals. The more powerful a vassal is, the larger its Desire for Independence. This diminishes through peace, trade with the lord civ and amenities, but is reinforced by warmongering of the Lord state, low amenities or weakening of the Lord state's power. It has 5 stages: Loyal, Cooperative, Neutral, Restless, Revolting.

    14) Vassals can be liberated willingly by the Lord civ or by another civ through a Liberation war. If the vassal has "Restless" status or above in its desire for Independence, it can join the liberator's side during the war. If It has "Neutral" or lower, it will join the Lord state's side normally like all vassals do. The Liberation of the vassal can be done via liberating cities or via winning the war and demanding it in the peace agreement.

    15) Vassals can be annexed by their Lord states only if they have a "Loyal" status, positive amenities in every city, the vassal military is at most half the size of the Lord state, every city the vassal has borders the Lord's cities and after a certain tech or civic is researched (just like with annexing city-states).

    16) Civs have now the ability to form non-aggression pacts. These ensure for a number of turns that each civ will be unable to go against the other in a war directly or indirectly. The deal can be broken only via declaring war directly on the other civ, but this will bear the maximum warmonger penalty.


    New espionage unit:


    Hacker: Information era unit that does several operations a regular Spy unit cannot, while not doing any of the Spy’s tasks. The Hacker can steal gossip, foreign trade agreement exact details, look at an opponent's city details (stats, citizen slots distribution, what is currently being produced), briefly halt a civ’s tech or civic progress and (with a small chance of success) alter a civ’s vote in the World Congress. Gains promotions and upgrades to its title similarly to the Spy.

    Spies can now also do more covert operations: They can steal map information, non-expended envoys, special project progress (e.g. the Manhattan project) and resources (luxury or strategic) for a set number of turns.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  2. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Chieftain

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    Intriguing ideas.
     
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  3. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    It would be nice if some great diplomats would be able to forge an alliance with another civ that usually wouldn't accept (with a small chance of failure) or reduce the warmongering hate, agenda disapproval etc. But that all would only work in single player and not in MP games.

    Great ideas!
     
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  4. Manifold

    Manifold ModderProtectionAdvocate

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    You have some good points. Try to find the other threads about this thematic.

    Courthouse, diplomatic quarter,...

    This is a joke or? I mean he was very damaging.
     
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  5. Basileus Rhomaion

    Basileus Rhomaion Chieftain

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    That's not a bad idea, but I think it could be done in a more inclusive way like changing the 2 axes of attitude rather than directly forming the alliance.

    Thanks :)

    I tried in fact, but I didn't find any thread with too much of a focus on reworking diplomacy. If there are more and you have seen them, post the link(s) here so I can take a look.


    Courthouse I don't think fits well as it is more in regards to law (that's what it alluded to in Civ IV and V as well), the Government Complex is more about political buildings and diplomacy. Diplomatic quarter works pretty well (even though its sounds a bit generic). Might be better if it was Senate -> Diplomatic Quarter -> Parliament. I'll think about it though.


    The vast majority of the Great Diplomats are famous ones I know from the top of my head, so Colin Powell came to mind. Plus I couldn't come up with a more suitable Information era diplomat of that caliber ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Nonetheless, I was under the impression that Colin Powell was at least more respected in public conscience (most other diplomats weren't angels either), unlike people such as Kissinger that are quite controversial.
     
  6. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    In order to avoid living people, Information Era great people in civ VI usually are not from that era. Jean Monnet would easily qualify for that era in civ VI.
     
  7. Basileus Rhomaion

    Basileus Rhomaion Chieftain

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    Huh, I didn't notice that pattern before. I was under the impression that a fair share of information era GP were actually alive. Civ VI is already fairly inconsistent with assigning GP to eras as well.

    I guess I have to change Kofi Annan as well then.
     
  8. Guatenadian

    Guatenadian Chieftain

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    Lester B. Pearson would be a great diplomat to add to that list.

    Overall you have a bunch of great ideas, but I have a few questions.

    For vassals, would there be ways for them to regain their independence? I mean if the conquered region had a different religion, was on a different continent, or was very unhappy would they be able to rise up in rebellion or better yet in later ages vote for their independence and it would be up to their "lords" to decide their fate?

    Second in this new world congress could there be emergency sessions? Back in Civ5 there may be say 20 turns for example between every meeting, I've had situations where in those twenty turns nuclear war has broken out. Lets say if your idea was implemented there could be an emergency session if there was a nuclear attack or a major war between factions/alliances, there could immediately be options to sanction the aggressor.

    On a final note, I noticed you joined Monday, so welcome to Civ Fanatics! I'm new to the forum myself but its probably the best online forum I've ever participated in.
     
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  9. Basileus Rhomaion

    Basileus Rhomaion Chieftain

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    Among my other ideas, I was also thinking of a big influx of Great People on all grounds (plus another new category, Great Entertainers from the Entertainment Complex). If I get around to finalizing that idea with their effects and everything, I'd add a few more Great Diplomats. Lester Pearson should be on my shortlist.

    The Lord states should be able to decide what to do with them (annexation just like with city-states can also be possible, but without envoys I don't know what would be fair). For independence, I was thinking of a Liberation War mechanic, but then I don't know how would the vassal be involved. Rationally they would be on the liberator's side, but they are mechanically obligated to follow their lord state to wars.

    I will have to give it some thought.

    I'm against the idea of sanctions because it makes it almost impossible for civs to go for domination in the late game and it can be severely abused, but I do like the emergency section idea. The Peacekeeper War mechanic should be good enough to punish aggressors if need it be.

    Thanks :)

    I had lurked the forum back in the Civ IV days to get my mods (Fall from Heaven 2 anyone?), but I joined recently for suggestions and some historical stuff.

    Also I agree, CivFanatics is among the least toxic forums that are fairly popular. I also find the lack of anti-Civ VI fanboys refreshing, social media pages and Steam are filled with people constantly complaining.
     
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