Rewritten RoM Civics

Assuming you can implement any of the three, I'd ideally like to see Militia get a maintenance cost increase when not in cultural territory.

Cheers.

:confused: RoM 2.8 already has increased costs for maintaining your military units when they are out of your cultural territory.
 
Yes, but these are universal modifiers, they do not change with civics. That's why I added one that also changes with civics.
 
You probably should also give it a decrease to inflation as well as giving it a small production bonus per citizen (standard only) specialist due to a better management of unemployment. I'd ask if it didn't seem like a lot of trouble but to give a small production boost per tax spending. Maybe 1% per 10% tax rate. In addition to probably balance it out a bit more with those additions to give it a total of +50% City maintenance costs since it would be more ideal to the regulated economy we Keynesians so long to see.
The production idea is a good unique bonus to Keynesian economics if coupled with the city maintainence penalty, but I'd stay away from messing with inflation as relevant to the financial manager screen. If I'm not mistaken, that's just how the manager rationalizes difficulty penalty to econ.

With this one, there should probably be some sort of Global Warming Increase Chance. I'm not sure of the rate but it should be very small per certain industrial buildings/improvements and maybe enable the new W2E building you put in.
Another good idea. Slowly but surely, we'll get a nice, unique flavor for each and every Policy in this add-on.

:confused: RoM 2.8 already has increased costs for maintaining your military units when they are out of your cultural territory.
As it should. However, that penalty accounts for a military with a strong logistical and industrial capacity, as determined by the era. A militia is inherently defensive, and would have tremendous problems pushing supplies and non-combat support to a foreign theatre, particularly overseas.

Also, another differentiation bonus. Perhaps the Revolution mod could ignore casualty penalties to national stability if Unmanned Warfare is selected?
 
You probably should also give it a decrease to inflation as well as giving it a small production bonus per citizen (standard only) specialist due to a better management of unemployment. I'd ask if it didn't seem like a lot of trouble but to give a small production boost per tax spending. Maybe 1% per 10% tax rate. In addition to probably balance it out a bit more with those additions to give it a total of +50% City maintenance costs since it would be more ideal to the regulated economy we Keynesians so long to see.
The production idea is a good unique bonus to Keynesian economics if coupled with the city maintainence penalty, but I'd stay away from messing with inflation as relevant to the financial manager screen. If I'm not mistaken, that's just how the manager rationalizes difficulty penalty to econ.

I don't think we should mess inflation. AFAIK, it's merely used to make it so gold production doesn't run away late game.

Another good idea. Slowly but surely, we'll get a nice, unique flavor for each and every Policy in this add-on.

As for extra productivity with Keynesian Economics, that's highly debatable...

However, I'd rather not add a complex tax rate modifier when I could just say +5% production in all cities.
With this one, there should probably be some sort of Global Warming Increase Chance. I'm not sure of the rate but it should be very small per certain industrial buildings/improvements and maybe enable the new W2E building you put in.

Maybe just a global warming modifier. That wouldn't be very hard to add.
Also, another differentiation bonus. Perhaps the Revolution mod could ignore casualty penalties to national stability if Unmanned Warfare is selected?

Causalities affect the chance of Revolutions? I know it affects War Weariness, but I never noticed it affect revolutions...
 
Victories abroad can stabilize your empire on the national level, so I'd assume that losses can destabilize you. The Vietnam example. "Our leaders don't know what the hell they're doing! We've gotta do something, fast!"

Having done some thinking, I would advocate +1 Specialist per city for Keynesianism, instead of any kind of production bonus. Represents more efficient employment. Gameplay-wise, I feel that +Specialists are a lacking bonus. Leave production to the realm of labor and strictly controlled economic models. I'd also like to see more policies that incentivize the generalist improvements, like Windmills, Lumber Mills (side benefit for slash & burn), water mills and windmills (both great candidates to spice up Green Energy). Also, double-checking; is religious education supposed to grant +5% science?

Also, how feasible are new systems? Working off of the idea of democracy, perhaps a Direct Democracy could have a simple "election" mechanic - if you have more cities unhappy then happy, the revolution system takes over and you lose control for X turns, like the current "step aside" mechanic. If you refuse, you get huge unhappiness and revolutionary penalties, alongside diplomatic penalties with other democracies / republics.

At this point, I've basically ran the gamut on comments, unless you re-write any of them. Also excited to see what kind of wonder associations you set up.
 
Oh huh, that's a big step. and certaily you should open a new thread to dicuss that. or better a thread for each departament.

Ok, looking through the link i like your classification. but: there too many departaments IMHO and way too many civics and configutations to choose from making each less special. i think that the departaments of executive, legislative, juristicion, religion, defense and economy are fundamental while the rest seem to go too deep into detail and should partially be merged into other categories. but one category that i miss is the social structure of your empires society (communism should be in this category since it a social model together with caste, slavery or surveillance society). maybe call it departament of social affairs.

let's go into some detail about some of 'minor' departaments:
1. agriculture: the policy in this sector is mostly dependant on the society model and the economy you run. therefore i don't think we need a distinct departament for this.
2. commerce: i'd call it economy departament.
3. energy: public & private? this rather belongs into economy.
4. homeland security: sounds strage, at least for not US citizens. ok but you think of it as a 'secret service' departament which is indeed not covered by the other groups. i don't think we need this as long as there aren't more factors its civics can influence (like increase cost for enemy esionage, spy stating xp, detection probability...)
5. housing: it's covered by economy, society and executive.
6. labour: from what i see in your list it's what i'd understand under the term social model.
7. immigration: well it could be intergrated into another catagory (slavery is based on slave immigration i think) but it could be discussed as an own group for the later epoches.
8. waste: better named 'departament of ecology'. parts of it this could be merged into economy but i think it's worth an own departament when it's competence would cover more than waste.
9. health: a proplematic topic for me. it's hard to talk about the health system of the ancient greeks. and untill now :health: and :yuck: weren't that relevant in RoM. so maybe wait with this until AND balaces health that it becomes an issue.
10. i see that a lot of your civics deal about how your empire interacts with others - not only on economic level. therefore one could take a departament for foreign affairs/policy into consideration that explicitly handles such issues.
11. in executiv departament: communism isn't a goverment but a society model. if you think of the soviet union it's dictatorship. or when you think of what it should be ideally it's 'council republic' or soviet republiic ('soviet' rus. = council) which is one of the most democratic system ever know.

why this thread walked so far down in the forum? i couldn't find it at first. time to bump this.
 
I think i understand how the principle can work such that every civic is somewhat unique and there's no perfect all-rounder civic for every situation: each departement should restrict itself to some specific branch that it gives bonuses/maluses to. and each civic in this departament should specialize on a specific situation penelazing another such that each is a natural choice for a specific case.

an example: the executive category should concentrate on the topic large/small empire (city count) with medium/mega sized cities. a representative democracy should be the natural choice for a large empire with mega cities. therefore it should reduce maintanance and increse happiness to allow this. while a direct democracy would be the choicse for small empires giving lots of happiness (due to fewer resources that can grant you happiness) and huge maintanance incresing commerce output so a small empire could keep up in research. a dictator ship again would allow a large empire (small maintanance) but heavyly increase unhappiness (no huge cities). it must therefore compensate the losses of not having large cities with production or commerce bonuses.

regarding the proposed civics in this departament: there are too many now when you consider how many other departaments you plan. this counteracts the idea of makeing each civic special. despite there are some civics that i don't think belong into this category:
# communism (see my post above).
# pulutarchy - isn't this just a special form of oligarchy, rule of many? that the power comes form money is rather an issue of society.
# theocracy: it's defines how the rule is legitimated and that spiritual and political power are in one hand - however does not specify the goverment type itself: normaly theocracies are dictatorships or comparable to 'one party' goverments. but in principle if a religoins theology would say the divine will is represented by the will of the belivers there could even be a republic theocracy. so this definitivly belongs into religous departament.
# republic and democracy? many democracies have a republic government but there are alot of monarchies with a perliamentary democracy like the UK. better name this representative republic, presidential republic and council/soviet republic though i'm not sure if the difference between the first two is just in the legislative departament. a soviet republic enforces direct democracy in legislative sector.
# oligarchy: not sure if this covers the goverment in states like china and the soviet union - single-party states. but i think that's the best civic they fit in on your list.
 
At first I was a little hesitent about changing the current civics but after reading here I'm all for it. I like the sound of most of the changes/suggestions, I only wish I could contribute but I'm not very good with civics. I will look forward to testing them out instead :)
 
I haven't had a chance to look at what you have yet, but I had this random thought; is there a way you could have one civic give an extra bonus if it is combined with another specific civic?
 
I'm resurrecting this because I did finally get Civic Attitude Changes to work. For those who don't remember, I can now make Players with Civic X gain or lose Y attitude toward anyone with civic Z, and have a custom message appear for why. It's pretty nifty.

However, I don't want to make my departments, for two reasons:

1.) It looks like Jon Shafer stole my idea and is making Civic as Social Policies for Civ5 already,
2.) Too much work

So instead of letting all this effort go to waste, I'm going to try to spice up existing civics with new diplomacy twists. The obvious candidates are for Slavery & Caste, but what other pairs of civics do you guys think should affect diplomacy with the AI's?
 
Oh man. I'm stoked you finally got the civic attitude modifiers to work. I don't have the complete list of civics in from of me, but off the top of my head:

Democracy/Republic/Federal vs. Fascist/Despotism/Monarchy
Bourgeois vs. Proletariat (Although all of these civics are probably diverse enough to qualify for modifiers)
Free Market vs. Planned/Marxist (can't remember the specific name)
Divine Cult vs. State/Free Church
State/Free Church vs. Secular/Atheism
M.A.D. vs. everything else?

Would it be possible to exacerbate differences if the Ideology Civics were opposed as well? Like a Fascist State with Objectivism would be more angry at a Democracy with Socialism or Progressivism than one with Objectivism or Individualism.
 
The Free Church civic needs to be balenced. The others have a :mad: penalty for a non-state religan. Not only does Free Church not have this it also gives +2:). I suggest giving it a +1:mad: for non-state religion like the others.
 
Oh man. I'm stoked you finally got the civic attitude modifiers to work. I don't have the complete list of civics in from of me, but off the top of my head:

Democracy/Republic/Federal vs. Fascist/Despotism/Monarchy
Bourgeois vs. Proletariat (Although all of these civics are probably diverse enough to qualify for modifiers)
Free Market vs. Planned/Marxist (can't remember the specific name)
Divine Cult vs. State/Free Church
State/Free Church vs. Secular/Atheism
M.A.D. vs. everything else?

Would it be possible to exacerbate differences if the Ideology Civics were opposed as well? Like a Fascist State with Objectivism would be more angry at a Democracy with Socialism or Progressivism than one with Objectivism or Individualism.

Good Ideas and Yes!

The Free Church civic needs to be balenced. The others have a :mad: penalty for a non-state religan. Not only does Free Church not have this it also gives +2:). I suggest giving it a +1:mad: for non-state religion like the others.

Isn't that the point of free church? That it isn't oppressive of other religions? Perhaps other civics could give negative diplomacy for their lax religious standards though.

Except we seem quite happy living in a representitive democracy with a Federal Constitutional Monarchy at its base.

I'm not sure that anyone would call it a monarchy anymore. Not compared to a real monarchy like Jordan.
 
Free Market should probably get massive boom bust cycles or something to represent the Guilded Age, if you give it boom-bust then regulated should have smaller boom-bust cycle and planned gets neither
 
Free Market should probably get massive boom bust cycles or something to represent the Guilded Age, if you give it boom-bust then regulated should have smaller boom-bust cycle and planned gets neither

Right, how exactly would that be expressed in Civ? :rolleyes:
 
Well, if you wanted true realism Free Market would start off with a major science boost but eventually grind to a halt and then apply a penalty as society becomes so stratified that it is effectively an aristocracy
 
Well, if you wanted true realism Free Market would start off with a major science boost but eventually grind to a halt and then apply a penalty as society becomes so stratified that it is effectively an aristocracy

Frankly, the civics are a mixture of realism and gameplay. If I made every civic identical to the actual effects, I'd need a Ph'd in Theology, Economics, Sociology, History, Business, Politics, and 10 other subjects I'm leaving out. There's a line between fun and too complex... And while I am not 100% happy with the current civics, I don't think they are worth my attention to totally overhaul them...

I'm working on some secret AND projects too. :mischief:
 
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