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RFC: Warlords: Minor Civilizations

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by Prestidigitator, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. Prestidigitator

    Prestidigitator Prince

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    Is this a trick question?
    Since many of us seem to have adopted the idea that minor civilizations would be nice in the Warlords version, I've decided to start a thread (that would hopefully be useful and make things easier) about this aspect of the mod. Minor Civilizations would make gameplay better, by dividing the Barbarians, and making it more historically correct, rather than one 'solid' body of Barbarians opposing the Civilizations. Besides the fact that it would flavourize the barabians on the map.
    The world map you see above has numbers in certain regions on the Earth, I will be updating this map often so that we can use it as a resource.
    Here are the minor civilizations (let's use MC for short) that can be put in the labelled regions:

    1. Elamites, Medes.[DONE]
    2. Peninsula Arabs.[DONE]
    3. Nubians.[DONE]
    4. Berbers.[DONE]
    5. The Celts.[DONE]
    6. Iroquois, Mi'qmaq.[UN-DECIDED]
    7. Cherokee.[DONE]
    8. Maya.[DONE]
    9. Korea.[Dropped]
    10. Khmer, Siam. [DONE]

    If anyone has a suggestion to include any other area of the globe please feel free to contribute, the members will decide whether it's a reasonable suggestion.

    So that this thread doesn't fall into chaos, we will start from number 1 and with time we will end with number 9 (region). When we establish what MCs will be chosen, we will move to the second region, and so on ;).
    I hope everyone would participate, so that we get a full gamut of ideas.

    Please note that not every-single MC will be included, many are just to brainstorm.
    Let the discussions begin!
    The current focus is on: Selecting top 5 Regions of Importance
     
  2. Prestidigitator

    Prestidigitator Prince

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    Is this a trick question?
    Reserved for future use...
     
  3. SadoMacho

    SadoMacho spanker of civilizations

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    Don't forget the Zulu's, they gave the British a hard time, they even were able to beat them once.
    A MC in SE-Asia would be nice too (Khmer, Siam, Angkor Wat was their wonder, like Chichen Itza was the Maya Wonder)

    About region #1: Media was once the master of Peria (vassel).
     
  4. Prestidigitator

    Prestidigitator Prince

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    Is this a trick question?
    I'll note that in my log ;).

    Region #1: I was thinking about something that would balance it for Babylon (now that it'll be in the mod), the Elamites might do well there, they burnt Ur around 2000 BCE, and they constantly posed opposition to Mesopotamia. What do you think?
     
  5. dc82

    dc82 Prince

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    Maybe something in Southeast Asia the Khmer or Mon people?

    While I like Korea, it seems like it doesn't really have much room to expand, or really shouldn't be expanding much outside the few tiles representing the Korean peninsula - at least in Southeast Asia they can expand from Cambodia eastward to Vietnam or southwards towards Malaysia and even Indonesia. It's also a bit more distinctive (a mix of native, Chinese, Indian, Muslim) of a culture - and has been more of a middle ground for several civs (China and India in ancient times, European powers during colonial periods, Japan in WWII, etc.)
     
  6. dc82

    dc82 Prince

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    Also, since this is now incorporating the Warlords expansion - should we assume any/some/all of the civs will be in the game?
     
  7. UglyBoy

    UglyBoy Pseudo Impossible

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    It's been discueesed before that Vikings, Carthage, Ottomans will be in but not Celts, Korea or Zulu.

    I would like to make the case for all 3 which will not be included to me minor Civs. I think all 3 deserve their place. So can you place a number 11 near Zululand. Also how about putting a number in the region of the East Med since either Phoenicia or the Hewbrews could take that spot?

    As for region 1 how about Sumer?

    I have some more thoughts about other regions but I'll wait until we get around to those regions

    PS I like your map very professional almost makes us look like we have a proper design team going on or something.
     
  8. Prestidigitator

    Prestidigitator Prince

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    Is this a trick question?
    Rhye said it's too early to decide that, that's why I'm not discussing it here. Zulu, Korea and Celts won't be in, atleast for now.

    Any more ideas on Region #1? Are we fine with just including the Elamites? or is it better to include the Medes as well?
     
  9. Prestidigitator

    Prestidigitator Prince

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    Is this a trick question?
    I wouldn't like including the Sumerians, we decided in the Mesopotamia thread that Babylon will represent Mesopotamia, so no.
    Region #1 is mainly the Persian area.

    I will be placing spots in other areas, so don't worry ;).
     
  10. UglyBoy

    UglyBoy Pseudo Impossible

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    Sorry don't know what I was thinking looking at the map again I don't know how I was that far off. I don't really know much about either the Elamites or the Medes so I can't really comment on whether we need either.

    I'll just wait till we move to region 2 or possibly 3.
     
  11. Tyranausaurus

    Tyranausaurus Warlord

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    Prestidigitator, why not have both the Elamites and the Medes in Iran? it would simulate correctly the "peoples" of Iran. Persia wasn't born in nothing, it had to conquer all the area in order to gain power, under Cyrus that is.

    The elamites threatened Southern Mesopotamia, while the Medes threatened northern Mesopotamia. I would love to see them both :goodjob:.

    PS: you'll be doing the flags right?
    It feels so well now that it looks as if we have a steady design, Rhye should consider promoting you ;).
     
  12. Prestidigitator

    Prestidigitator Prince

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    To be hones I too would like to have them both, there was no supreme power in their region until Cyrus. I just need more opinions supporting this so we can resume to region #2.

    Maybe I didn't explain myself well on this region. Babylon will be there now, and it shouldn't expand easily into this region, because historically it was opposed by the Medes and the Elamites, this is why it would be neat to have them both in. When Persia will be born, it will have to face them with immortals, and eventually conquer them, so I guess it would work out quite nicely :).

    As for the flags you mentioned, yes, I will do all the flag decals required for each and every MC chosen to be in. There are no worries about that so rest assured ;).
     
  13. Crayton

    Crayton King

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    1. Medes, I agree that this would be an excellent choice to check Mesopotamian expansion east. I was also thinking Hittites, but would rather have the Mesopotamians expand there, regardless of whether (Hittites ?= Mesopotamia). EDIT: I don't see a reason to include both Elam and the Medes if they are acting like barbarians (would they war aginst each other?).

    Overall I think most MCs should hold regions specific to later civs. Therefore I would recommend early Mongols (Huns?), Turks (Tartars?), America (Iroquois, although there is also a neat idea about America starting as a vassel to England), Arabs (Arabs :)), Persia (Medes), etc....

    What is the definition of a MC? No diplomacy? Always War? Flavored Barbarians?

    I don't want to wait too long to post my perception on the other 9 regions as my opinion are fresh in my mind, so skip over this if you need to.


    2. Yes, as of now I rarely see expansion into the peninsula anyway, but this may change with Babylon.

    3. Again, yes. These barbarians will solely be a problem for Egypt so I think "Nubians" is a nice name.

    4. Moors, maybe. I know the game utilizes these barbarians to endanger Egypt. A more apt name may be "Berbers", the ethnicity of the bedouin.

    5. The Celts are a definite. A very unique MC flavor.

    6. Iroquois are good. A nice acknowledgement to Civ3 (as would be the Zulu). This might give problems if America is intended to inherit this land with Iroquois city names.

    7. The "Anasazi" are a very unique civilization from the region highlighted. they would provide adequate presure on the Aztecs.

    8. Maya, yes. They are a nice precurser to the Aztecs.

    9. Korea, possibly. I'm slightly biased here. I would rather see a MC that represents all that is north of China, Huns/Koreans/Mongols. Certainly a unique MC though.

    10. A perfect fit for current gameplay. Khmer or Siam, I don't mind.

    Other really small regions that came to my mind: Tibet, Ireland, Poland-Lithuania, and Amazon(okay, not that small).
     
  14. SadoMacho

    SadoMacho spanker of civilizations

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    1. Medes!!!! --> can become Persia,
    Hittites : they live in Anatolia, they had the frist recorded peace-treaty with Ramesses II

    11. Sarmathia, Russians in Roman time (Krim-area)
    Tartars (Golden horde) around the Kaspian Sea around 1400AD I think.

    4 Berbers were the natives befor the arab invasion of north africa, Moors are arabs whom took Spain from the Visigoths and were stopped from entering Europe by the Franks (see Roeland song)
     
  15. Prestidigitator

    Prestidigitator Prince

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    Yes (citation needed ;) ), I think MCs are in a state of war with each other during games, so they would work well.

    Hittites, haven't thought of them, but why not? they would be nice too, I will have to update the map tomorrow.
     
  16. Prestidigitator

    Prestidigitator Prince

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    Okay, let's keep the focus in region 1 now ;). The medes are supported more here, they should appear around 800-700 BCE. The Elamites (if chosen) would appear around the 2500s BCE.

    To summerize this, region one should contain either one, or both of the two MCs. Any final remark on the region?
     
  17. jbfballrb

    jbfballrb Warlord

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    i think all those except for 7 look good
     
  18. NeoT

    NeoT Nobody

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    I think that the Mapuche should be added in the south cone of south america, those people defended their lands from the Incas, from the spanish and from the newly created republics of Argentina and Chile until 1880. Even if their are not very important in world history, they deserve at least be represented as barbarians in south america.
     
  19. Crayton

    Crayton King

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    Region One: I guess it depends how much we will add (I'm lumping Region One with the Near East).

    1st choice: Medes, should survive initial Persian spawn
    2nd choice: Hittites, I certainly don't mind a crowded ME. Trojan War anyone?
    3rd choice: Israel/Phoenecia reasons given most anywhere at CivFanatics
    4th choice: Elam, maybe too near southern Mesopotamia, but if more is merrier...
     
  20. Vishaing

    Vishaing The Son

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    Here's my Contribution Prestidigitator. When you go to a new region PM me and I can make a new Blown Up map for you. I'm pretty sure I have all of the important stuff marked, you can still see resources, and the Barbarian cities are easy to see, I also added a Letter/Number graphing system along the top and bottom, but the grid lines are difficult to see on desert, so I'm not sure how useful they will be.

    Unfortunately I know little of this period of history in the Middle East, so I can't really help that much now. Overall however, I would be all for filling the map with minor civs for the major civs to fight and conquer.

    And here's the map;
    MEMontage copy.jpg
     

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