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RFC: Warlords: Minor Civilizations

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by Prestidigitator, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. SadoMacho

    SadoMacho spanker of civilizations

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    How many MC can be added to the game? Can there be more then 24 civs (playable and MC)? And could you please add 11. Zulu's. They have been in Civ since CIV I, they can't be forgotten.
     
  2. Hitti-Litti

    Hitti-Litti Deity

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    All but 7 are good IMO. Maybe instead of Cherokee there should be something in Colombia or Argentina to stop Inca invasion to Brazil
     
  3. UglyBoy

    UglyBoy Pseudo Impossible

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    Good point! I have no idea whether the MC's count towards the civ limit and having no knowledge of SDK I don't know whether their is actually a hard upper limit. I'm sure Dale did a dll allowing 32 though so maybe the sky is the limit. Anyone know for sure? And will adding a lot of MC's make the game much slower? If so we need to think about the flavour/speed balance.
     
  4. Surtur

    Surtur Warlord

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    They definately count towards the civ limit. Minor civs count as normal civs just have no diplomacy and instant war (correct me if I'm wrong).

    I don't think this mod needs so many MC. It shouldn't be more than 1 per continent (Asia maybe 2, Australia doesn't need one).
     
  5. McA123

    McA123 Prince

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    Is there no limit to the number of Civ's in Warlords or has the limit just been increased? If it's the latter than most of these ideas need to be scrapped.
     
  6. Vishaing

    Vishaing The Son

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    In Warlords you can set the limit to however high you want, theoretically. I know Dale said you could set it at LEAST as high as 30, maybe 40. The Problem is the interface is designed to only accomodate 24. This is relatively unimportant for the score display on the right side of the map, but is devestating to the diplomacy window, and possibly to the millitary advisor and some others, however Minor civs cannot be contacted, so will not appear in the diplomacy window if I remember correctly. Thus the only problem area is the score display on the right, and possibly the millitary advisor screen, which I'm sure with a few tweaks can have scrollbars added, however I don't know how to do this as I don't know Python very well. If someone found me a decent library of python functions I think I could figure it out, but I would need some fairly decent documentation.
    In the end it really depends on whether or not the graphics engine can handle the changes and whether or not the Game Engine can handle that many civs, which I know it slows down when they are all full civs, but I don't think minor civs will have nearly as much effect.

    Personally I think dividing the Barbarians up is a definite must have, as it is both more realistic and provides a bit more fun, as one can focus on one kingdom or city state at a time. It adds more tactical flexibility to combating Barbarians. And the best way to divide the Barbarians in my oppinion is to make minor civs represent some of the factions currently represneted by Barbarians
     
  7. McA123

    McA123 Prince

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    So long as it doesn't slow down the mod a ton, then it'd be great. One of the best aspects of the mod is it's low loading times considering the number of Civs and size of the map.
     
  8. Prestidigitator

    Prestidigitator Prince

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    Is this a trick question?
    Thanks Vishaing :goodjob:! that map would work excellently as a referrence :).

    It has been confirmed that the limit is endless, so there is no problem in adding MCs.
    I know it ruins the Diplomacy interface, but there is a solution to this, can Rhye, or someone else make a little pythod/SDK amendment so that MCs do not appear on the scoreboard? if that can be dones then there should be no problems.

    Slowdowns, hmmm, I don't think it would affect the speed in a noticable way, you see, only the Barbarians will be changed, and because it is for the Barbarians, theoretically there shouldn't be any MCs after a certian era, they would all be distroyed by the Major civs.

    Oh wait, here is what just came to me: Take Babylon for example, it shouldn't meet anyone except the Egyptians, Indians and possibly the Greeks before the Persians are born, so I guess the Medes and the Elamites would be dead and off the scoreboard by then. so after all, there is no need to change anything in the graphics, the MC will be gone after a while and it would't affect the score board.
     
  9. Prestidigitator

    Prestidigitator Prince

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    Is this a trick question?
    Crayton, I'll take the relevent info ;), you said that Elam might be too close, I agree, but I think we really need to raise the pole for Babylon and Persia, and having the two would spice things up a little.
    Anyway This is the final call, anyone opposing the idea of having both the
    Medes and the Elamites?

    If not then I'll update the first page so that we can move on.
     
  10. Prestidigitator

    Prestidigitator Prince

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    Is this a trick question?
    Sold! Region #1 will contain both the Medes and the Elamites!

    Moving on to Region #2. Please note that the discussion will ONLY include disussing what are called the 'Penensula Arabs', I'd like to leave the discussion of the Phoenicians, Hebrews and Hittites for later to avoid enlongated discussions, we'll discuss them at the very end ;).

    Region #2: The Arabian Penensula: In this area, we should have a MC, for lack of a better name, I will refer to them as the 'Penensula Arabs', the Arabs before Islam.
    Given that the mod stats the 'Arabian Civ' at ~600 AD, with the birth of this religion, we could have 'Penensula Arabs' as a MC. They would have cities around the Pursian Gulf. The earliest referral to them was by King 'Shelmanesar III', when he won a battle against them, around 850 BCE.

    Let the discussion on Region 2 begin!
     
  11. Tyranausaurus

    Tyranausaurus Warlord

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    Great! you can count me in ;) I like the idea.
     
  12. Karam

    Karam Chieftain

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    Prestidigitator, I think not many people know about this area, and that's why you find the lack of input in Region #2. But for me, I agree that the barbarians in this area could be replaced by a 'Peninsula Arabs' MC for sure ;).
     
  13. Crayton

    Crayton King

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    I don't mind being taken out of context ;).

    I 100% agree with an Arab MC, and have no overbearing convictions about what they should be called.

    I am slightly concerned about raising the number of MCs ad nauseum. Without the many diplomacy calculations these won't eat up TOO much time between turns. If there ends up being a hard limit somewhere though, I would rather continue as we are and hack off MCs at the end. :)
     
  14. dc82

    dc82 Prince

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    I'm know you want to avoid discussion, but with the Mideast small enough as is, I would rather have something along the coast (between Sinai and the Euphrates) just since they seem to have had more contact with the main civs of the game - so it's up for grabs by Egypt, Babylon, Ottomans, Arabs, etc. So my vote for 2 is dependent on that - if we have to choose between 2 and a "11" for that area, I rather go with "11" than 2. If both are possible or there can't be "11," I'm fine with 2.
     
  15. Prestidigitator

    Prestidigitator Prince

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    Is this a trick question?
    Crayton, like I said before, the MCs won't affect speed because they won't be present for a long time, they would eventually be conquered by the Major civs and die off the score board :).

    dc82, same goes here, about a civ in northern Asia Minor, I agree, but after we decide upon a civ between Sini and the Euphrates, we'll decide between whether we want both or not ;).

    After 4 positive responses, I conclude Region #2.
     
  16. dc82

    dc82 Prince

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    Are we on to #3 now? My vote goes for it. Aye.
     
  17. SadoMacho

    SadoMacho spanker of civilizations

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    Nubia is a nice idea, later it could ethiopia, the only area not colonized by Europeans. (only a short period occupied by Italy just before WWII)
     
  18. UglyBoy

    UglyBoy Pseudo Impossible

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    Nubia sounds good to me!
     
  19. Prestidigitator

    Prestidigitator Prince

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    Is this a trick question?
    :goodjob: Gee thanks guys, that didn't take so long did it? just about 30 mins to conclude Region #3, which really should be straight forward.

    Now to Region #4, we all know the annoyance of the barbarians from the west who give Egypt a hard time around 400-500 AD. I'm not sure who those should be, the Moors I guess, what are your thoughts about them?

    Region #4.
     
  20. dc82

    dc82 Prince

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    Just taking a look at the comments so far and the responses - I think the better question to ask is if there's anyone against any of the MC's suggested. 'Cept for 5, which I would see the only objection with, most of the MCs are in outlying areas or more sparsely populated regions that it would help the gameplay for the nearby Civ. I think I'm fine with moreorless all of them... 'cept for maybe 5, just 'cuz Europe is already cluttered as is.
     

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