RFCE 2.0 brainstorming thread

AbsintheRed

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Moderator Action: New Opening Post inserted into thread
--Ozbenno
 
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Morholt

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RFCE 1.0 is out and everyone is happy. However there were lots of things that we wanted to do but was put aside due to time and scope concerns. Some of those things were put into RFCE++ which was developed in parallel, some were simply not possible without drastically reworking the map.

Anyways we will now start working piece by piece on RFCE 2.0 and since people are already having ideas it might be a good idea to have a single brainstorming thread. Note that there is a separate thread about the new map here. The general shape and size of the map is all but decided, it will be almost twice as big as the old one tile-wise and will include more of Egypt, the Caucasus and the Volga.

Most parts of RFCE++ will probably make it in as well. That means a whole load of new civs, Unions, and HRE. The last two especially are still up for debate, what are people's idea on those.

We've also been talking about what additional civs we would like in. So far we've got Armenia, Georgia, Khazars and Volga Bulgaria that we're reasonably sure about, we've also discussed Wallachia and Golden Horde/Mongols, those are less certain to make it in. It is important to not go too crazy with new civs, they slow down the game a lot and also one of the reasons for making 2.0 is to give the new civs in RFCE++ a less crowded map. Filling the map up until it's crowded again would defeat that purpose.
 

iOnlySignIn

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Germany needs to be split in to more different states for the HRE to be truly interesting. Currently, the Emperor is pretty much whomever has best relations with Germany.
 

Nolan08

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I don't think the addition of new civs is that necessary honestly. Like another poster was saying in here, though, if you have HRE, you have to have enough civs in Germany to make it a worthwhile concept, otherwise it's not necessary.

There's really only a few civs that I wish made the cut in the original RFCE 1.0 version, and the civs are:

Scotland
(Possibly Ireland, but also possibly not needed)
Aragon or Catalonia (could be subsumed into Leon and Castile, but it'd be interesting for historical purposes)
Civs in Germany to make the HRE concept viable and interesting
And then, of course, a civ in Morocco to take up the place of the Fall of the Muslims in Spain.

Other than that, though, I don't see too much need for MORE civs...like you said, they just lag the game up which I already have a problem with. I'd like the K mod implemented to lessen the chance of MAFs. I have never had a MAF happen in a SoI game, so I don't see why it couldn't happen for a RFCE game, as well.

Honestly, I still think that the stability ratings for the various civs in RFCE are still out of wack, too, especially in RFCE 1.0. Civil wars happen too frequently, and Austria rarely ever makes it after it's spawn. France rarely survives in any of my games, either, and they are supposed to be the powerful civ on the map.

So basically in order of importance for civs I would put it as:
Scotland
Maghreb-like Civ for Islam to make that area interesting and viable
Aragon/Catalonia
Civs in Germany
(Maybe not Ireland, though)
 

zwei833

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I don't think the addition of new civs is that necessary honestly. Like another poster was saying in here, though, if you have HRE, you have to have enough civs in Germany to make it a worthwhile concept, otherwise it's not necessary.

There's really only a few civs that I wish made the cut in the original RFCE 1.0 version, and the civs are:

Scotland
(Possibly Ireland, but also possibly not needed)
Aragon or Catalonia (could be subsumed into Leon and Castile, but it'd be interesting for historical purposes)
Civs in Germany to make the HRE concept viable and interesting
And then, of course, a civ in Morocco to take up the place of the Fall of the Muslims in Spain.

Other than that, though, I don't see too much need for MORE civs...like you said, they just lag the game up which I already have a problem with. I'd like the K mod implemented to lessen the chance of MAFs. I have never had a MAF happen in a SoI game, so I don't see why it couldn't happen for a RFCE game, as well.

Honestly, I still think that the stability ratings for the various civs in RFCE are still out of wack, too, especially in RFCE 1.0. Civil wars happen too frequently, and Austria rarely ever makes it after it's spawn. France rarely survives in any of my games, either, and they are supposed to be the powerful civ on the map.

So basically in order of importance for civs I would put it as:
Scotland
Maghreb-like Civ for Islam to make that area interesting and viable
Aragon/Catalonia
Civs in Germany
(Maybe not Ireland, though)

German civs, do you mean the civs such as Bavaria, Saxony ,Swabia, etc?I will be happy to see that (because I am interested in German history ), but I afraid there will be too much civs.

And if anyone really make this, I suggest make a system to let the flag of the civ which is elected to be the Kaiser turn into the HRE flag.
 

rrosen

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I think one question to ask is: how volatile would you like history to be? In the current version civilizations very closely resemble their historical domains, at the cost of decreased variability between games. Is that a good or a bad thing? Is it desirable for e.g. France/Austria/Ottomans to become super-Empires, exceeding their traditional domains every now and then? (And a follow-up question: if it is indeed desirable, is it technically feasible to not have it happen every game?)
 

Morholt

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Brainstorming means exchanging ideas.

I'm sceptical towards more German civs for a number of reasons. Firstly gameplay, we don't want a zillion different civs. Also I don't see any principal difference between for example Bavaria and Swabia the way that there is a difference between Spain and Portugal. Also historical reasons, Germany in the middle ages was no less homogeneous than France or Poland. Really the fragmentation that is associated with the HRE did not come until the Reformation and 30 years war.
 

AbsintheRed

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If the map will be similar to the latest suggestions in the map thread, then we already agreed on including Khazaria, Georgia, Armenia, Volga Bulgaria and also a playable Golden Horde
Most of the other RFCE++ civs will also make it
That's already ~40 civs, so splitting Germany to small HRE states would be very hard on gameplay
I also agree with this:
I'm sceptical towards more German civs for a number of reasons. Firstly gameplay, we don't want a zillion different civs. Also I don't see any principal difference between for example Bavaria and Swabia the way that there is a difference between Spain and Portugal. Also historical reasons, Germany in the middle ages was no less homogeneous than France or Poland. Really the fragmentation that is associated with the HRE did not come until the Reformation and 30 years war.

So it's not likely at all
Having said that, some kind of HRE and Union mechanics will be definitely included though
We would like to have this brainstorming on how (or if) these 2 RFCE++ systems can still be improved
 

AbsintheRed

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And if someone need the flags for the civs in german ,I can make them

Thanks for the offer, art is always needed for mods...
Are you capable of doing other kinds of artwork for Civ IV too?
We are usually in lack of building art, especially for the new civs
For example the Lithuanian and Swedish UB still share the same building art IIRC :/
 

Bonci

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I love the new civs in rfce++...
Isn't it possible to split germany in two or three civs and let the other cities be independent? I don't think that 2 civs are so much.
Maybe with some feature that allows players and AIs to "influence" the independents? Maybe bribe them before the HRE vote?

And I would love to see a very strong pope! It should also be a problem if you have a low number of faith points...players should feel urged about collecting them. Maybe you could be excommunicated if you have only a few.
It should obviously be balanced.
 

zwei833

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I made new icons for them in + +, but they do need new models.
Do have a "blank" icon .dds file with only a frame? I feel difficult to make icons without a .dds like that
 

Nolan08

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Brainstorming means exchanging ideas.

I'm sceptical towards more German civs for a number of reasons. Firstly gameplay, we don't want a zillion different civs. Also I don't see any principal difference between for example Bavaria and Swabia the way that there is a difference between Spain and Portugal. Also historical reasons, Germany in the middle ages was no less homogeneous than France or Poland. Really the fragmentation that is associated with the HRE did not come until the Reformation and 30 years war.

Wellllll....

Technically, yes. But also no haha. Historically, Germany was much more divided politically than either England or France in the Medieval Ages. But not divided culturally until the Reformation when the northern part of Germany became mostly Protestant and the southern part became mostly Catholic. And that's the 30 years War business you were talking about. But otherwise, you are correct.

;)
 

merijn_v1

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Do have a "blank" icon .dds file with only a frame? I feel difficult to make icons without a .dds like that

I have. Look at the attachment.

I don't think the addition of new civs is that necessary honestly. Like another poster was saying in here, though, if you have HRE, you have to have enough civs in Germany to make it a worthwhile concept, otherwise it's not necessary.

There's really only a few civs that I wish made the cut in the original RFCE 1.0 version, and the civs are:

Scotland
(Possibly Ireland, but also possibly not needed)
Aragon or Catalonia (could be subsumed into Leon and Castile, but it'd be interesting for historical purposes)
Civs in Germany to make the HRE concept viable and interesting
And then, of course, a civ in Morocco to take up the place of the Fall of the Muslims in Spain.

As many of the RFCE++ (if not all) will be include, some of your wishlist will be in the game. (the red ones will probably be in)


Maybe the Mongol Horde could be a non-playable civ, like Byzantium in vanilla RFC. (Only more aggressive. Some kind of "Unique Barbarian")
 

variousletters

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I don't know how easy this would be to implement from a programming perspective, but I've always thought that some faith points should be rewarded for converting another nation to your religion.

I'm not sure what the exact number of points should be. 10 seems a bit excessive, but 5 seems like a good incentive for players to actually go through the trouble of converting their neighbors.

(Sorry, I know this is a bit off topic as the thread is largely discussing which Civs and RFC++ features ought to the included --- perhaps I should have posted in a different thread?)
 
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