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RFCEurope 1.4

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall: Europe' started by AbsintheRed, May 29, 2016.

  1. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,909
    Location:
    Szeged, Hungary
    Wanted to release it on Friday, so the weekend is free to play - both for me and to everyone else ;)
    This isn't too bad nevertheless... So I proudly present RFCE 1.4!
    Thanks for the help and all the feedback everyone!

    With the recent changes the mod is very stable, we have lots of new stuff and even more fixes and tweaks in the background :cool:
    Changelog since 1.3:
    Spoiler :

    Reformation updates:
    - Strengthened the Reformation procedure, most conversion-related chances are somewhat increased
    - Revised all civs' willingness for Reformation, which now not only affects the main decision, but almost everything connected to it
    - Neither all your cities nor all the religious buildings will convert automatically, even if you embrace the Reformation (but still a significant number of them)
    - Protestantism will still spread to some of your cities, even if you decide to stay Catholic (but it won't convert any buildings)
    - Bigger number of neutral (non-Catholic majors civs, indies, barbs) nations' Catholic cities will follow the Protestant ways
    - More populous cities have increased chance to get/keep both Protestant and Catholic religions
    - Added the same minimum interval timer for converting your State Religion if you embrace the Reformation
    - Somewhat increased faith point bonuses from the Reformation (both on religion spread and on building conversion)
    - If Protestantism spreads to a city and all the religious buildings are converted, Catholicism itself might also disappear from the city
    - Various new interface messages for the different situations connected to the Reformation
    - Fixed AI issue where some of your rivals switch back from Protestantism right after they choose the Reformation, not giving it a chance even if it spread to most of their cities
    - Fixed AI issue where the Pope could potentially choose to follow Protestantism on Reformation, now it will never spread to Rome if the Pope is Catholic

    RiseAndFall (spawn, collapse, respawn) updates:
    - Respawned civs can no longer collapse in the first 10 turns
    - If the civ is respawned, it's harder to collapse them by barbs
    - Vassals can now also instantly collapse if they lose a significant amount of their territory in a couple turns
    - Fixed issue where the human player collapsed less often then it should
    - Fixed issue where Byzantium could collapse in some rare cases even without losing Constantinople
    - Improved mechanics for all 4 different collapse types, collapses should be way more straightforward
    - Increased frequency of resurrections, decreased number of civs that can stay in a collapsed state at a given time
    - Respawned Cordoba or Aragon are not affected by stability penalties for not holding the original core area
    - Fixed inconsistencies on city flips connected to the spawn and respawn mechanics
    - Total collapse has much more chance to happen for the human player, for example: 60% with -15 stability, 100% with -35
    - Dynamic civ names refresh for the respawned civ right after the spawn is complete, not only on the beginning of the next turn
    - Revised civ-specific AI chances for rebirth when the actual respawn mechanics has started
    - Revised civ-specific AI values for all the various events connected to other civs respawning in their territory
    - Under suppress situations there is 30% chance for the AI that the full respawn does not happen, only some revolt in the corresponding cities
    - All vassal and master status updates happen initially on respawns, DCN refreshes for all affected civs
    - Increased chance for AI civs to vassalize respawned civs in their territory right on the spawn

    Secession and revolt updates:
    - No city secession in the first 15 turns after spawn, or in the first 10 turns after respawn
    - AI declares war on the new indy city right after city secession
    - City flips of the minor nation revolt mechanics also use the new city secession rules
    - One free defender unit for the new owner of the city
    - The first unit from the original owner will always defect to indies on city secession
    - All the other units have 60% chance to stay with the original civ
    - Settlers and Great People never flip to the indy civ on secession
    - City secession only results in a 25% culture loss for the original civ
    - Adjusted the potential bonus from stability with the strength on the revolt, so it will never be negative if you are stable enough
    - None of the actual chances can be negative on revolts, but they can modify the other options negatively in the background calculations
    - Updated and revised all texts connected to the minor nation revolts, most noticeable in the popup
    - New interface messages for various events on the minor nation revolt mechanics
    - Rewrote all chance calculations for all minor nation revolt options, also the interactions between them:
    -- Do nothing: base chance calculated from the strength of the revolt, your stability, and your passive military presence in the city
    -- Military: base chance + significant bonuses for having many military units in the city and your military might
    -- Financial: base chance + bonuses from the amount of gold you spend on bribes, adjusted with your government form
    -- Both: base chance + military bonuses + financial bonuses
    - Effects from your actions on successfully preventing the revolt:
    -- Military: generates unhappiness in the city for 10 turns, the city goes into revolt for a turn
    -- Financial: bribing the lords away (thus preventing their independence) angers the rebel militia further, more attacking units will appear
    -- Both: all of the above effects
    - Improved city choosing method for city secession, based on the recent fixes in city stability calculations

    Tech Tree updates:
    - Biblotheca Corviniana requires Patronage and Paper instead of Patronage and Public Works
    - Marco Polo's Embassy obsoletes on Trading Companies instead of Astronomy
    - Theodosian Walls obsolete on Gunpowder instead of Education
    - St. Sophia requires Civil Service instead of Guilds (and Philosophy)
    - Kalmar Castle moved to Military Tradition from Professional Army
    - University moved to Education from Philosophy, Inn moved to Clockmaking from Education
    - Manor House and Chateau obsoletes with Paper instead of Divine Right
    - Free Great Theologian for the first civ to discover Philosophy
    - Removed redundant tech requirement of Theology from Philosophy
    - Moved Magna Carta and Golden Bull to Philosophy from Divine Right
    - Moved St. Basil Cathedral to Divine Right from Chemistry
    - Removed tech requirements for South America Access, East Asia Access - not needed to take space on the tech tree, as they don't have actual resources on the map
    - North America Access is special as we have one on the map near Iceland, but as it's preadded and removed early enough, still no need for tech requirement
    - Colonial Trade Route can be established after the discovery of Astronomy instead of Astrolabe
    - Astrolable no longer enables Ocean trading, only Optics
    - Aztec Conquest and Inca Conquest moved to Chemistry from Professional Army
    - Ivory Coast moved to Flintlock from Civil Engineering
    - Gold Coast moved to Professional Army, East Africa and Indian Trading Post moved to Polygonal Fort
    - Cape Town and Panama moved to Arabic Medicine, Quebec and Jamaica moved to Liberalism
    - Cuba moved to Constitution from Professional Army, Virginia moved to Nationalism from Constitution
    - Far Eastern Treaty Port moved to Military Tactics from Nationalism, Malaya moved to Combined Arms from Arabic Medicine
    - Louisiana moved to Biology from Economics, Philippines moved to Civil Engineering from Naval Architecture
    - Kazimierz moved to Civil Service from Banking

    General/gameplay changes:
    - Added new 1200 AD scenario! Note that it's only a basic version for now, for testing purposes
    - Anarchy instability now appears right away for the human player, not with a turn delay
    - Revised swing stability calculations, now converges to 0 a little slower
    - Lowered anarchy swing instability for the AI, normal anarchy instability for everyone
    - Improved StoredData handling like SoI and DoC, credits to embryodead
    - Increased the significance of war maps - both with increased values (when choosing target) in general, and with more differentiation between the levels
    - Indy and barb cities inside war maps have a much increased chance to be AI targets, and now this also heavily depends on the war map levels (so indy/barb cities in core areas will almost always be primary targets)
    - Indy and barb cities outside war maps now have some chance to be AI targets (were totally ignored previously), but it's significantly reduced compared to normal targets
    - Revised code and fixed various inconsistencies connected to the settler and war map setup
    - Removed all unnecessary values from all settler and war maps, now they only have WB values everywhere
    - Correct CNM name for new cities placed in the WB, now cities added there will get their RFCE name instead of one from the default city list
    - Since the WB file cannot handle special characters and long names perfectly, added function to rename city names on the start of the scenario
    - AI civs will more often reconsider their wars against minor civs (note that being an AI target and declaring an actual war by the AI is handled separately)
    - AI war declaration on indies is now based on their war maps, the chance is increased with higher war map values
    - AI civs will much more frequently declare war on indies in their core area
    - Revised values connected to cultural revolts/flips of independents and barbs
    - New Sahara province, adjusted borders of North African provinces
    - Successful Crusade spreads Catholicism to Jerusalem (if not present already)
    - Increased city cluster for many civs, it's possible for them to have closer cities in some situations
    - New rules and other various improvements in the AI city settling mechanics, most civs' city-placement should be more dense overally
    - Timber, Deer and Fur resources will disappear if the Woodland/Dense Forest/Palm Forest is cut down (remain on city-settling though)
    - Corresponding improvements will be removed too on resource removal (both on cutting forests and on historic/preset resource removals)
    - Unworking stability bonus for your healthy cities changed to stability penalty for your unhealthy cities
    - Civ-wide health stability bonus: +k with an average k happiness in your cities
    - Changed happiness stability to +k with an average k happiness in your cities
    - Minor changes in the city stability calculations for the AI, should be able to handle it somewhat better now
    - Added some base stability bonuses for AI civs which had a hard time at the beginning for various reasons (early civic changes, too many foreign cities, barb activity, etc.)
    - Reduced overall damage from the Hungarian Végvár: units won't get a fixed amount of damage, it depends on their current HP instead (so Végvár won't kill units, only weaken them)
    - Hanseatic League HQ needs to be connected to a water area of at least 10 tiles
    - Added religion and/or state religion prerequisites to some additional wonders (mostly Islam and Catholic)
    - +1 additional instability for each foreign religion (after the 1st foreign one) in your cities
    - 1 less instability from Judaism with a Jewish Quarter in the city
    - The number of your cities where Kazimierz spreads Judaism depends on the size of your empire
    - Kazimierz only adds free Jewish Quarter to cities where Judaism is already present (including the ones where it just spread)
    - No city gifting in the first 5 turns after spawn (avoid exploit with city gifting before the spawn flip for additional units)
    - The respective Trading Company projects provide North + South America Access and East Asia Access as a free bonus, so the AI have some incentive to actually build them
    - Buildings and Units can now require Civics (adapted from Sword of Islam by embryodead)
    - Both the Pagan Shrine and the Shrine of Uppsala require the Paganism Civic
    - Work boats can also pass foreign borders, as all other naval units
    - West and East India Trading Companies also need Atlantic Access - ATM there is no point in building them without AA anyway

    Variance in independents:
    - Instead of placing the same indy cities in 100% of the games, one of a couple alternatives will be selected from a given area
    - Chance of spawning for a given city from an area depends on both historical importance and gameplay related reasons
    - Sicily, 500AD: Palermo (60%, "Palermo"), Syracuse (40%, "Syracuse")
    - Provence, 500AD: Marseille (50%, "Massilia"), Aix-en-Provence (50%, "Aquae Sextiae")
    - Languedoc, 500AD: Toulouse (30%, "Tolosa"), Toulouse alternative position (30%, "Tolosa"), Narbonne (40%, "Narbo")
    - Normandy, 500AD: Caen (100%, "Caen"), starts with Catholicism, population size 2
    - Brittany, 500AD: Nantes (50%, "Naoned"), Vannes (30%, "Gwened"), Rennes (20%, "Roazhon")
    - Picardy, 800AD: Calais (50%, "Calais"), Dunkirk (50%, "Dunkerque")
    - Tuscany, 500AD: Firenze (40%, "Florentia"), Pisa (40%, "Pisae"), Ancona (20%, "Ankon")
    - South Italy, 500AD: Napoli (40%, "Neapolis"), Benevento (40%, "Beneventum"), Taranto (20%, "Tarentum")
    - Navarre, 700AD: Pamplona (70%, "Pamplona"), Pamplona alternative position (30%, "Pamplona")
    - Picts in Scotland, 552AD: Scone (50%, "Scaig"), Inverness (50%, "Inbhir Nis"), barbarian city, population size 1
    - Wales, 900AD: Cardiff (50%, "Caerdydd"), Caernarfon (50%, "Aberffraw"), barbarian, population size 2, moved stone 1NW
    - Transylvania, 880 AD: Gyulafehérvár (80%, "Belograd"), Kolozsvár (20%, "Napoca")
    - Ireland, 700AD: Downpatrick (100%, "Rath Celtair"), barbarian, population size 1
    - Ireland, 700AD: Rathcroghan/Sligo (100%, "Cruiachain"), barbarian, population size 1
    - Ireland, 700AD: Cashel/Cork (100%, "Caisel"), barbarian, population size 1
    - Ireland, 700AD: Hill of Tara/Dublin (100%, "Teamhair"), barbarian, population size 1
    - Reworked old spawn of Dublin to respawn of Dublin ("Dubh Linn") in 988AD, on the traditional Irish foundation date
    - Removed the respawn of Florence in 800AD, removed the spawn of indy Edinburgh in 860AD
    - Scone and Inverness are reduced to towns a couple turns before the Scottish spawn - would restrict city placement way too much otherwise

    Text/GUI improvements:
    - New GlobalDefines_Alt.xml file, users can change RFCE-specific settings there (RFCEurope\Assets\XML\)
    - Included option in the GlobalDefines_Alt to enable/disable AI UHV checks, they are enabled by default
    - Added option to enable/disable autosaves during AI autoplay, also in the GlobalDefines_Alt (disabled by default)
    - Added new hover-function: holding down alt when hovering on the map will display the respawn areas
    - Option to enable/disable both the spawn and respawn hover displays, in the GlobalDefines_Alt (enabled by default)
    - Colour for respawn areas is purple, colour for spawn areas changed to white (for now)
    - Added some new and improved some old event and interface messages connected to Crusades and to religious persecution
    - Revised all older hints (which can be seen on loading a game) to be in sync with the latest version of the mod
    - Added around 15 new hints for the loading screen - some are only for fun though :)
    - Religion Screen and Company Screen can now handle long names with unicode characters
    - Improved religion foundation date information on the Religion Screen, also it now takes different scenarios into account
    - Improved city and wonder foundation date/city/civ information on the Info Screen, also it now takes different scenarios into account
    - Fixed mistakes on the Info Screen where information from the top5 cities and from the wonders were not in sync (connected to city visibility and contact with the civ)
    - Readded era displays to various screens (main, info, religion) before the discovery of Calendar
    - Colour changes in various interface messages, now they are more consistent
    - Minor updates in the non-CNM city names for a couple civs
    - Updated the Stability Guide in the Civilopedia with all the recent changes
    - Revised the changelog from the very beginning of the mod's life
    - In the 1200AD scenario the 500AD DoM texts are now set for all civs spawning later than 1200AD
    - Added Venetian, Byzantine, Arab and English DoM texts for the 1200 AD scenario - by TheMulattoMaker and DC123456789
    - New help text for the Jewish Quarter, other minor text updates in the Civilopedia
    - Fixed potential display issue on the Info Screen with the initial selection of the graphs screen pull-down menu
    - Texts in the WorldBuilder and in the Settings Screen will now also use the mod-specific era names
    - Added main screen notification about the Crusaders' arrival to the human player

    Setup for civs and UHVs:
    - Sweden starts with the following civics: Feudal Monarchy, Serfdom, Manorialism
    - Cordoban UP update: +1 food bonus for every 2 excess health, but applied in all cases (not only when the city is not starving without the bonus from health)
    - For the 1st Cordoban UHV, Cordoba should be the biggest city alone (tie is not enough)
    - Franks start with the Theology tech, in the State Religion civic, and with Catholicism as their State Religion
    - Lorraine province is historic for the Franks, switches to border on the German spawn
    - Morocco starts with Literature, so they can remain in the Religious Law civic
    - New Dynamic Civ Names for Burgundy, Cordoba, Tunisia (respawn of Cordoba), Morocco
    - Added Earldom (English), Mormaerdom (Scottish) and Banate (Hungarian) to vassal DCN names
    - Small updates in the DCN for Byzantium, Hungary, France, Bulgaria
    - New Dynamic Civ Names for Spain, Aragon, Sicily (respawn of Aragon), Portugal
    - Wattasids won't revolt if Morocco controls the region, they now appear in their DCN as a ruling dynasty
    - Norwegian 1st UHV: Vinland should be completed until 1066 AD
    - New aspect of Norwegian UP: also enables trading through Ocean
    - Normandy province remains contested after the English spawn for both Norway and Denmark
    - Added Sicily, Apulia, Calabria and Malta as contested provinces for Norway and Denmark, everything changes to unstable in 1194 AD
    - Norwegian 2nd UHV: Mercia no longer needed, added Scotland, Sicily, Calabria, Apulia as new goals, deadline is 1194 AD
    - Ottoman Janissary UP: only -1 instability from foreign religion in your cities - not necessarily a historical aspect of the UP, but important for gameplay
    - British Isles have new base city name map: Ireland area (Panopticon), Scotland area (TimGB), England area (Panopticon, TimGB, DC123456789)
    - New city name map for the Scottish civ: Scottish Gaelic -> Irish Gaelic/Manx -> Welsh/Cornish/Breton -> Scots -> English - by DC123456789
    - Updated city name maps for the civs France/Burgundy, England, Norway and Denmark (in Britain, Brittany, Greece, and the Levant/Egypt) - by DC123456789
    - Updates in the Byzantine and in the General city name maps in Britain and France - by DC123456789
    - Updates in the French and in the General city name maps in Northern Italy
    - Normandy province also needed for the French 1st UHV
    - Moved the Novgorodian 1st UHV a couple turns later, new deadline is 1284AD
    - Revised spawn zone for Muscovy near the Novgorodian core area

    Balance:
    - Lowered cost of Religious Prosecutors, upped their max number to 3
    - Decreased some production modifiers for Cordoba, increased for Novgorod
    - Less barbarians around Novgorod, reduced both the generic barb spawns and the Mongol threat for them
    - Slightly decreased number of Steppe Horse Archer barbs for Kiev
    - Revised all barbs for Cordoba and Morocco, no more Berber barbarians in Iberia
    - Destroying work boats is reduced to only one Viking point for the Norwegian UHV (same as for pillaging settled fishing boats)
    - Increased Norwegian Viking points UHV from 80 to 100 (with the new cities in England it's still not hard at all)
    - Lowered Janissary threshold to 300 for the human player, 200 for the AI
    - North Atlantic Access near Iceland is removed in 1068 AD
    - Nerfed various German production and support modifiers, they seem to have much more cities with the new AI city placement rules
    - Cut back tech progression for Germany and a couple other AI civs, Protestantism was founded before 1500 in most recent games
    - Nerfed Norwegian and Danish tech progression for the human player
    - Decreased Ottoman unit production and maintenance bonuses, with the recent changes they are doing better than great :)
    - Added a couple more starting units to many later starting civs (Austria, Ottomans, Dutch included)
    - Folwark and Noria won't add extra health from the Rice resource (same as Granary)
    - Hispaniola provides 2 Sugar and 1 Coffee resource, Brazil provides 1 Sugar, 1 Timber and 1 Gems resource
    - Double production speed with Slaves for Hispaniola, but no production bonus from South America Access
    - Lowered price of West and East India Companies, production speed is no longer doubled with Atlantic Access, smaller bonuses from from the other 3 Access resources
    - East Africa provides East Asia Access, Philippines requires the East India Company, Panama requires West India Company
    - Brazil and New England no longer require the West India Company, Cape Town no longer requires the East India Company
    - Jewish Quarter bonus increased to +25% gold income
    - Increased independent Lyon's starting population size to 2
    - Both the city in Tuscany and Milan starts with an additional Archer unit
    - Added a couple agressive melee barb units in Ireland, should be hard to invade
    - Adjusted barb spawns in the British Isles and the Viking naval spawns

    Bugfixes:
    - Various dll bugfixes and optimizations from Better BTS AI, K-Mod, Afforess
    - Fixed serious bug with stability refreshment on demand (F2), which caused continuously changing (mostly decreasing) stability in some cases
    - Fixed 2 different issues connected to stability calculations in anarchy (resulted in extra instability in longer anarchies)
    - Fixed Religion Screen bug which was caused by the Convert and Exit buttons being the same (you actually click on both when clicking on either)
    - Fixed bug with anarchy instability if you switch civics/religion on popup, not on the screens
    - Fixed a couple mistakes in python code which resulted in .dll assert failures (they were probably harmless though)
    - Fixed critical bug which resulted in some weird cases where masters and vassals were not mutually at war with an enemy
    - Fixed issue where you couldn't declare war on indies in the first 5 turns
    - Fixed issue which appeared if the game was trying to remove a bonus resource from a plot when there wasn't any
    - Fixed inconsistencies with the Scottish UP - will work against major civs and indies, but not against barbarians
    - Fixed issue with Venetian naval units' starting position
    - Fixed serious AI bug where a major nation was not mutually in war with an indy civ in some special cases
    - Fixed bug where later set (on other civs spawn for example) potential provinces were never upgraded to historical/core
    - Fixed bug where all provinces of the given civ were reset to their initial status on respawn (thus not taking later changes into account)
    - Fixed issue on respawn where potential provinces didn't change status with the flipped cities
    - Fixed assert failure connected to the new civic screen
    - Fixed possible CTD with some AI worker action calculations, based on a Firaxis mistake - by OrionVeteran
    - Fixed another (probably harmless) assert failure, connected to civ initialization
    - Fixed bug in unit looping connected to prosecutors, which results in a huge performance improvement - thanks to Nightinggale
    - Fixed various bugs in the Venetian preset war against independent Ragusa
    - Fixed bug (and potential crash) connected to renaming the city on city secession
    - Fixed bug where religion foundation date were displayed as "Early Middle Ages" for almost all game long
    - Fixed bug: the Pope now always ignores Barbs and Indies outside it's war map
    - Fixed Kievan Food UP, now it correctly gives +2 food on all city tiles
    - Fixed non-defined provincetype issue connected to province initialization, added some safety asserts for it
    - Fixed bug where the Krak the Chevalier was not working in some rare situations
    - Fixed bug where previously acquired culture wasn't kept when you conquered an indy/barb city
    - Fixes in stability calculations connected to city razing
    - Fixed Viking point calculations connected to city conquest
    - Fixed 2 different mistakes in the stability calculations on civic-happiness/unhappiness from religion
    - Fixed an overlooked aspect of the Polish 'no instability from anything connected to religions' UP
    - Fixed the city attack CTD - huge thanks to Alberts2, also to Nightinggale and PinkPallin for their help
    - Fixed issue where mercenary units and some barbarian units were unaffected by plagues
    - Fixed bug which added plague immunity with the Cargo promotion instead of the Leader promotion
    - Fixed bug where you could ask the Pope to change to Paganism
    - Fixed a Firaxis bug with double language tags which caused issues when running the game in German
    - Fixed issue with era names, now vanilla BtS era names will never be displayed instead of mod-specific ones (on era splash screens for example)
    - Fixed bug which prevented showing DCNames in some cases with the MasterOf condition
     
  2. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Hopefully I didn't mess up anything with the file
    It's already uploaded to sourceforge, grab it here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/rfceurope/files/?source=navbar

    EDIT: no, not yet, the upload got broken somehow
    Will post here when the file is really ready
    EDIT2: second upload also went wrong, the file didn't upload fully.
    Seems like sourceforge has some problems tonight.
    It was closer this time, more than 70%, will try it again.
     
  3. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    The file seems to be correct now.
    Enjoy!
     
  4. soul-breathing

    soul-breathing Chieftain

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    Muscovites still unable to play in 1200ad scenerio in the latest svn.
     
  5. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    They are now :)
     
  6. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

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    congratulations and thanks for the upload.

    I assume SVN already has all the changes of RFCE1.4. Or should I download 1.4 nonetheless?
     
  7. El Bogus

    El Bogus Chieftain

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    Congratulations on the release!
     
  8. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Thanks! :)
    Btw, from now use this thread for feedback with the latest version
     
  9. Panopticon

    Panopticon Utilitarian

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    When I play Arabia for UHV (also historically), it means conquering lots of non-Muslim cities in the early turns, and it's normal that cities secede. That feels kind of weird and not fun, like punishing desired behaviour.
     
  10. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Wait, your state religion does spread to the new cities, right?
    But yeah, there were some other similar options about Arabia, will look into it.
    EDIT: any suggestions how their situation might be improved?
     
  11. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Would it be possible to give them a special stability boost in the first several turns? It's a problem for both the AI and human player.
     
  12. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    The AI already has some bonuses, it can easily be increased if needed.
    I could add something for the human player too, but generally I try to avoid such things
    I think that adding a cool and historic aspect to the UP is way more desireable than some hidden bonus stability.
     
  13. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Well, tried the Arab start, it's not that bad.
    Managed to conquer/settle all provinces needed for the 1st UHV in a couple turns, with being in +2 stability at the end.
    So now I only have to hold them for around 300 years to complete the UHV.
    Edessa was razed though, so 1 less city was needed to be conquered.

    Anyway, following my previous thought:
    How would everyone feel about adding a second aspect of the UP, so there is a chance that previous religions disapper on conquest?
    I think it also works fairly well historically. I might be mistaken, didn't read after it too much.
     
  14. Panopticon

    Panopticon Utilitarian

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    As you might guess, I tried the Arab start today and did the same thing in a couple turns too. But normally, you have to flip or conquer 5 Orthodox cities, some with other religions. Inevitably, one city would be lost to secession. It was, like, -16 stability from cities.
     
  15. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    No, that would be very ahistorical. "Indigenous" Christians formed a majority in Egypt, much of the Levant, and Iraq for centuries after the Arab conquest, and remained significant minorities into the modern era. Christians were mostly tolerated by the Arabs.
     
  16. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    I've warned you about arabs and -16 stability sound more familiar then +2. But they become so unstable only recently, we should look back what does cause this.
     
  17. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    694
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    I made two testgame. With 1.4 in picture we should rebalance Norways first uhv, i made 86 and 89 vikingpoints, however in none of them went for sicily, maybe been afraid of city secession would cripple my progress there. I think give +10/15 point for Vinland should work, thats very vikinish :D
     
  18. El Bogus

    El Bogus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    370
    Location:
    Leipzig, Germany
    The Muslim civs are lacking the super stable civic combo of Vassalage, Manorialism, Feudalism and so on. These are so significant that for example my stability level with Germany peaked at +70. Giving the Muslims a similar strong civic combo would help them with stability issues. I don't know if that would require an overhaul of civics, though.
     
  19. Swarbs

    Swarbs Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    938
    I think a better option would be for foreign religions to cause less instability for the Arabs once a church / temple is built. That would encourage historical tolerance, with the Arabs allowing Christians free worship. Would need to balance it to see if the reduction should be 1 or 2 points, but I think that should address some of the issues.

    Another possibility would be for the bazaar to add +1 stability under Trade Economy. Again, that would reflect the stability the Arabs got from trade and would give them a stable civic combo to balance the lack of feudal monarchy and law in the early period.
     
  20. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    694
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    I vote for the bazaar idea. Sounds good to me.
     

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