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Rhye's Ancient World

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by Arkaeyn, Jul 8, 2006.

  1. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    First new thread!

    I think the ancient world is coming along nicely. When Greece, Rome and Persia get going, they typically get involved in a war that ends with one, if not two, destroyed.

    Historically, I believe it should look something like this:

    Persia and Greece get involved in a fairly permanent war which starts with Persia taking Asia Minor, and ends with Greece taking over most of Persia and some of Egypt. At this point, Rome attacks and takes over the Greek cities. Persia, to simulate the Sassanids and Parthians, still exists. Greece and possibly Egypt are both destroyed. India is involved a bit, but not dramatically so.

    Currently, this is only half-feasible. Egypt and India are too passive - this is, I think the biggest problem. Also, come the Middle Ages, the winner or winners is generally too powerful for the new Civs, especially the Arabians.

    I would fix this by slightly increasing Egypt and India's aggressiveness. I would also, when Warlords comes out, add the Ethiopians to prevent the Egyptians from spending all their resources expanding into Africa.

    Of course, Warlords will add the Celts and Carthaginians too, which will seriously alter the look of the ancient world. Probably in a good way for this mod, although it may be necessary to add more turns to the ancient world. It would be hard work for Rome to destroy Greece, the Celts, Carthage, and Egypt in 50 turns.
     
  2. Eddiit

    Eddiit King of Nothing

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    Hrm...I think your getting too specific with your results. We want to make it Possible for that outcome...not necessarily set in stone.
     
  3. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    I'm focused on possible, because right now history is impossible. Nobody ever attacks Egypt
     
  4. Gunner

    Gunner Chieftain

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    I don't think that its an already concluded fact that the Celts will be included in the mod. For RoX they weren't in.

    I'm not sure how I feel about the general idea behind this though. Part of me likes the idea of things unfolding historically, but part also wants it to be a bit freeform. In the end it comes down to what direction Rhye wants the mod to go in.
     
  5. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    I know that Rhye isn't planning on including the Zulu, but I think the Celts could do great things for the mod, which currently has Rome fighting billions of barbians from the north and east with only the Greeks as neighbors. Add the Celts and the Carthaginians and things suddenly get a lot more interesting in ancient Europe.

    Plus it's not so difficult to mod a mod. I had decent success turning Open Borders off, without Rhye needing to give me the go-ahead.
     
  6. Eddiit

    Eddiit King of Nothing

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    I agree the Carthagians will add alot to the mod as long as we improve the area around Carthage. Which Barbarian Tribe had that Fersegederix guy? They might be a good civ to add around the Roman period.
     
  7. Gunner

    Gunner Chieftain

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    That would be pretty exciting if the Celts and Carthaginians were added in. Something would have to be done to ensure that they fell though, it would just be a bit too weird to have them around into the Middle Ages.

    Just what are you envisioning that could actually be done to accomplish the goals that you set out earlier here? The two main diffucult things would be to encourage Greece and later Rome to go on the correct conquests. I can tell you from the game I just played that as it is it would be absolutely impossible for an AI Greece to even come close to the conquests of Alexander.
     
  8. Eddiit

    Eddiit King of Nothing

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    You know about making open borders much harder thing...doesnt open borders allow trade? If we make open borders harder there would be way fewer trade routes.

    How about seperating Trade from open borders. Having a Trade treaty establish trade (which is pretty easy to get) and having open borders be what it is (but harder to get) now minus the trade component.
     
  9. Gunner

    Gunner Chieftain

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    Had a cross post there with you.
    Vercingetorix was a chieftan of a the Arverni tribe, which was a tribe in Gaul. The Celts in civilization are refering to the Gauls.

    here's a place where you can educate yourself ;):http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vercingetorix
     
  10. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    That´s a pretty nice idea!

    And about the gauls, they could be later replaced by the french. I think Rhye was thinking of doing something along those lines with some civs now the 18 civs limits are removed with warlords.
     
  11. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    My hope is that Warlords show how to mod "barbarian" tribes, and thus the Franks, Vandals, Saxons, etc show up and if they successfully capture a city, they would settle down into civs.

    If that's not conceivable, then the game could work essentially the same, if the Celtic capital is placed somewhere where it won't flip when others show up - like Ireland.
     
  12. rappstar

    rappstar Chieftain

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    This might get buried here, but I think that this has value...

    Also separating trade from open borders is novel and inspired. Nothing irritates me more that watching a luke-warm ally march settlers across my territory.
     
  13. Blasphemous

    Blasphemous Graulich

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    This is confusing. I know we're all used to having absolutely EVERYTHING to do with the mod all in one thread, but now we have a forum. It makes a lot of sense to create a new thread for the trade and open borders subject (as I did for my University idea). This thread should be about making the ancient world realistic.
     
  14. Tyranausaurus

    Tyranausaurus Chieftain

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    I still think that the addition of a Mesopotamian civ is crutial and important to gameplay in this mod. Having a fourth first civ would be nice, perhaps not the Sumerians (too early), but the Babylonians.

    I still didn't get a confirmation from Rhye if anything of this sort would be added into the mod, but I think an empty fertile crescent with no playable civ in the beginning of the game is just plain wrong. Hey we're forgetting a complete chapter in history this way!
     
  15. Red Threat

    Red Threat 52ยช brigata Garibaldi

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    I prefer as it is now (barbarian cities with big culture). It's more realistic (rarely Mesopotamia was united under one ruler only) and avoids complications. Maybe ONE or TWO minor civs (e.g. Babylon and Assyria, with Ur still barbarian) with little chance to expand would fit well also.
     
  16. Gunner

    Gunner Chieftain

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    I like the idea of keeping Mesopotamia for the most part barbarian. It does a good job of representing its city state nature. Having a Babylon or Assyria minor civ would be a pretty good idea too, if we can get that concept to work correctly.
     
  17. Karam

    Karam Chieftain

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    While that is partially true, we could include it in some form. Meaning that we could have Babylon start with Akkad as the capital city (with Ur and Nineveh) as minor civs or barbarian, but then expands to control both of the cities. This would simulate the act of unification that was done by both Hammurbi and earlier by Sargon of Akkad (the first leader to unify the region).

    This is my idea, even egypt stared as scattered empires, and so did Persia, and china.

    I hope this idea jotted above would be something. ;) . what do you guys think?
     
  18. Eddiit

    Eddiit King of Nothing

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    I hate to harp but I think that could be getting a little too realistic. Let history unfold as it will. Just give the setup.
     
  19. Tyranausaurus

    Tyranausaurus Chieftain

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    Excellent idea! :goodjob: :thumbsup: !

    I don't get your drift? can you please clarify? ;)

    IMO we can't blow away almost 5'000 years of history out of this mod (Although I recognize it starts at 3'000 BCE), these were the civilizations that invented writing, the wheel and civil law. These were the civilization which built the Hanging Gardens, and were the ones who fought major wars with Persia, Egypt and several other nations (represented by Barbarians).

    I don't know but I really think that at least the Babylonians should be in Rhy'es of Civilization. If having it would make the scenario too historically accurate then so does having wars between Greece and Persia - It's okay to simulate history in some matter. Let the Babylonians in Please!

    Rhye can you please give your say here?
     
  20. Eddiit

    Eddiit King of Nothing

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    I think hes waiting for warlords to give his say. He cant make design decisions like that until he knows what options are available and what mechanics are introduced in warlords.
     

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