Rhye's and Fall of Africa

[christos200]

south iberian penisula, sicily and south greece,from crete and sparta, to athens and thebes should be added because they played a major role in african history and because africa in ancient times may be boring.

 

[hoplitejoe]

If what you mean by Africa is the northern coast of it then I agree at least for antient times. was there influence really felt past the arab invasion though?

 

[J. pride]

I would say yes since most of those places were conquered by the Arabs (Iberia, Sicily, Southern Italy, Crete) except for Greece. Since the Abbasids, Ummayads, Fatimids, Moors ruled these places you should include them

 

[Optical]

africa in ancient times may be boring

If we start at the fall of Rome, it actually encompasses most of Africa's history, the obvious exception being Egypt. However... there might be a better approach.

The fall of Rome is our delayed start - the equivalent of vanilla RFC's 600AD start.

Then we put places like Ancient Egypt, Nubia, Axum (Ethiopia)... Rome and Greece in our early start, and have Axum in the Fall of Rome start as well, with the Moors, Arabs, Great Zimbabwe and such. Sound good?

 

[christos200]

i think that alexander should spaw as a great general outside persian egypt, and have 12 units or so and take over egypt.

 

[awetzel]

I'm guessing it's set in the future or I'm having trouble seeing where the "Rise" comes in...

My thoughts exactly. You can't exactly have a rise and fall of something that never rose. How about the Fall and Bigger Fall of Africa. That might make sense make some sense. I dont think this idea will get much love, but i could be surprised.

 

[BenZL43]

Oh, if we planned to include the southern Mediterannean, Hellenism will be perfect addition to the game..

...
if we start when Ancient Egypt rose..
...
but if we start when Rome Empire fall..
...
it'll be really weird as Islam is coming..

 

[christos200]

we should start when Ancient Egypt rose.

 

[hoplitejoe]

And have 2000ish years of nothing?

 

[christos200]

no, if we have south iberian penisula, sicily and south greece,from crete and sparta, to athens and thebes, we could have the wars between the greek city states, the ptolemaic egypt of alexander the great ,the romans taking sicily and carthage fight with rome for south iberian penisula and north africa.

 

[mitsho]

But that's not African History. That'd would be a Rise and Fall of the Ancient World and would probably be very successfull, although I would shorten it to a Rise and Fall of the Greeks. But for a Rise and FAll of Africa, you need to start later and encompass the time of around 800 to 1800/1950: It's more concise, more focused, less civs with more cultural continousity.

 

[christos200]

History of africa alone is boring. if we have south iberian penisula, sicily and south greece we will make the game more interesting.

 

[mitsho]

You are young, right? Because the history of Africa is really not boring But interest is not the point, as that is highly subjective. But it only makes sense to either create a Rise and Fall of the Mediterranean/Ancient World/Greek World or a Rise and Fall of Africa (either condensed to African Kingdoms from 800 to 1800 or incorporating the imperialistic age or combining the two).

In Short: Africa relates more to Sub-Saharan Africa (and maybe the interaction with outsides forces, Europeans and Arabs) than to the Northern Shore Happenings of Ancient Times. These are better incorporated in a mod about that.

 

[christos200]

in my opinion this should be a North africa only mod. Also for a game africa is boring. As for your second question i am 19 year old.

 

[hoplitejoe]

christos, you do know there is a Greek world mod already? currently it is on a indefinite hold but you and a few people could easily restart the work (all the basics are there).

 

[Buddhafish]

However, if we went with a) (which would also require the southern tip of Iberia, Sicily and Greece) a lot of cool things could come of it.

To start, unplayable but necessary nations would be:
Byzantium (to be conquered)
Spain (for the Almohads/reconquista... or should we leave that out? Iunno. Also, colonization)
Portugal (early colonization)
England (major colonization)
France (major colonization)
and MAYBE Sicily (fighting with Moors)

For playable nations...

Moorish Africa/Iberia:
Al-Andalus
Almohad Dynasty/Tunisia later
Almoravid Dynasty/Morocco later
One more, not sure what...

Sub-Saharan West Africa:
Ghana
Mali
Songhai
Kanem-Bornu
Something along the southern coast, possibly Benin?

Middle East:
Fatimids
Arabs
Ottomans (but where to capital?)
Yemen

East Africa:
Ethiopia
Adal/Somalia
Swahili

Central/South Africa:
Mutapa
Zimbabwe
Kongo
Zulu
Obviously more here, but what?

That leaves 18+ playable nations. Scale would need to be fairly small, considering how spread out this all is. There's also a big ole hole in between Ethiopia, Kanem-Bornu Swahili, Kongo and Mutapa. I'm not sure what to fill it with, my impression being there were mostly just tribes in the area. If we could fill this hole, Africa would actually be pretty well-connected.

This is a very good Civ list for the mod, but I would have some changes.

1)Make the European Civilizations like England, France, Netherlands, Belgium (for the Congo), but have them spawn with ships near where they conquered (So England would have ships spawn around South Africa), a ton of units on them to simulate them coming to conquer. Also, have them be more technologically advanced as to simulate some of the great wars in Africa. An example is the war between the Zulus and the British.

2) I would agree with keeping Portugal and Spain on the map, but make them European based, not colonial and spawning on ships. They could be playable if they had an impact enough on Africa that would allow three UHVs to be created. Same for Byzantium and Greece.

3)If it's possible, include a triple start. One in either 5000 or 3000 BC, doesn't matter which to me. Have one around say, 300 BC-300 AD, just so those late spawning civs don't have to wait for an hour to spwan. And have one near the time that Europe starts colonizing, maybe around 1000-1300, again, so the European civs don't have to wait the hour to spwan. More convenient.

Unfortunately, I am only a help on XML work, and I would have to get up to date on how to mod Rhye's work to even start, but this would be a very fun mod to play.

 

[Optical]

I really like all of the above, especially point 1

 

[awesome]

portugal played a pretty important part in africa, at least more important than belgium, so i'd probably have them as a conqueror civilization, too. spain didn't really do too much in africa, so they could just kind of hang out and annoy everybody else. maybe the boers could be another group in south africa. then you could have a few independents or barbarians to fill in the holes

 

[Buddhafish]

Portugal must've just slipped my mind as a contender. But for the flow of the game I would still make them European based, but put all of the ships and units into one of their costal cities.

 

[Krzowwh]

If you are in need of suggestions, I have some in mind
For North Africa, the Hafsids or the Marinids
For East Africa, perhaps Makuria?
For the West African coast, Bonoman
For Central Africa, Luba or Lunda
And perhaps the Merina Kingdom to fill up Madagascar