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Rhye's and Fall of Asia - Version 0.8

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall Modmods' started by civ-addicted, Sep 4, 2011.

  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth 古典部の会員 Moderator

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    I agree, and since SoI is always cited as the ultimate model of mods, it does this as well, with Yemen for example.

    Haha, well, it wasn't that complicated. The thing is, I did it that way because I thought at that point that adding new players is even more complicated. All I was saying back then was, if you want to have a playable respawn that has its own goals and stability maps and whatever, simply introduce a new player for that purpose and make sure both don't co-exist.

    I think any of these options is better than nothing, although as I said before, I think the Gupta Empire warrants to be playable because it's both interesting and historically significant. Indo-Gangetic India is still underrepresented compared to China, with only the Mauryas representing its various dynasties, while China gets six, although India deserves almost the same amount of attention. I know we also have Southern Indian civs like the Chalukyas and Cholas, but still.

    Mauryas and Guptas are different enough to be different civs (more different than Tang and Song, for example). In terms of UHV, this would mean that while Maurya represents the religious and military aspects of India with its current goals, Gupta could have any combination of great people / golden ages / science / culture goals to reflect the Indian Golden Age and be much more of a builder civ.

    In terms of implementation, this is achieved easiest by making them their own civ.
     
  2. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    I absolutely second this. China got not only 6 Civs but also MH mechanics and other cool stuff, like Porcelain (I know, anybody can build it but it still alludes to China).

    I think this quote alone leaves no room to represent Guptas by Mauryas even in the programming terms :) We could re-make one of the Maurya UHV to reflect espionage, and come up with tone of humane Gupta UHVs :D
     
  3. Nintz

    Nintz King of the Britons

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    Okay, I'm back.

    It's been almost a month since I posted here, but I have a few ideas.

    UHV- Not sure if you have new ideas for this or have changed the game in my absence, but here are my ideas for some of the UHV lacking civs. Note: I haven't put in specific years for these, as they are only ideas.

    Mongols

    1. Claim the Mandate of Heaven/Collapse all chinese civs.

    2. Build an army of at least 100 calvary archers by X year.

    3. Pilliage at least 5,000 gold from improvements.

    Majapahit

    1. Allow no Vietnamese, Khmer, or Siamese cities in Indonesia in X year.

    2. Have a GDP ranking in the world's top 5 in the year Y.

    3. Conquer the Sri Vijayan capitol by year Z.

    Song

    1. Be the most advanced civilization in the world in year X.

    2. Be the richest civilization in the world in year X.

    3. Do not lose any cities until year Y.

    New Corporation- Hellenism.

    Provides extra culture in cities. Starts with the Indo-Greeks. Can only be spread manually, through a special unit (Western/Greek Scholar). Excpetion is the Indo-Greeks, who would auto-spread it. Gives access to the Greek Senate building. Provides +2 happiness, -1 production, +2% gold income, -2% maintenaince costs. A general building that slightly helps multiple aspects of a city.

    A potential coding issue is the -1 production in cities with only 1 production... they wouldn't be able to build anything.
     
  4. civ-addicted

    civ-addicted Chieftain

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    Welcome back:)
    Mongols and Song have coded UHVs already; hardly played Majapahit, and their UHVs have never been reported yet (but it seems to me that all three can be achieved by doing the same thing). I'll try to play them and decide whether they need new ones.
    Hellenism, huh? :think: nice idea. I'll try to do something with it.
    I hope the other requesters aren't mad at me, but i started to do the necessary work to add Gupta. I still need a UU and a UB (with decent art, of course;)), suggestions for UHVs and a UP are welcome as well.
     
  5. The Turk

    The Turk Chieftain

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    Overall I'm very saddened that you've decided to add obscure civilizations, that are vaguely mentioned in history, they would be much better suited as independents and barbarians.

    Needless to say I will leave this here for the Gupta UU:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gupta_Empire#Military_organization

    Basically if you read it, you'll notice that, the Gupta's were known for their Longbowmen, which could be used in damp jungle conditions. They were also known for using catapults, so I would give them that as a starting tech.

    Also please add a "White Hun" barbarian group. Otherwise known as the Hephatiles, they were a group of "Huna's", which invaded India from the North West (like the Aryans), and constantly plagued Gupta India.
     
  6. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    IIRC, those are already in the mod.
     
  7. 2phunkey4u

    2phunkey4u West-Eastern Divan

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    I did report that I could achieve nothing with them bc I could not break Sri Vijaya. My starting navy got annihilated by Orang Laut on turn 1, so I could not colonize anywhere. Not enough time and production capacity to rebuild warships to escort the transports. Additionally, Bugis Warriors don't cut it against Bowmen. But I guess if you plan to make Sri Vijaya tech much less, as you mentioned, the Majapahit can prevail.
     
  8. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Can you please give a sneak peak of Mongol UP? I am really curious if you can top what was already done. DoC has it better than it was in original Rhye's design. I hope I won't be stoned for blasphemy :lol:
     
  9. Leoreth

    Leoreth 古典部の会員 Moderator

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    Great to hear. Allow me to share my ideas, then:

    In my opinion, the current Maurya UB is more suitable for Gupta because they were much better known for their medicine. I suggest the Lion Capital / Edict / Pillar of Ashoka as a replacement for Maurya (referring to basically the same thing, see here). I think it fits best as a Monument replacement that either gives extra stability or reduces maintenance.

    I think either the UP or UHV of the Guptas should represent their status as the dynasty that presided over the Indian Golden Age. I often find that difficult to decide, is a historic achievement something that's inherent to a civ (UP) or something that you have to achieve (UHV)?

    In my opinion, the UHV should focus mainly on a builder challenge, where you have to balance various commerces against each other. I don't want to give concrete numbers or dates, because to be honest, I haven't played the game much in the era where the Guptas would exist, so I can't judge what's balanced and challenging. However, it should include:

    - Have X culture in Y
    - Be first to discover Mathematics, Medicine, Philosophy and Literature (don't know how feasible this is, but these techs would be kinda historical choices)
    - have Z golden ages by Y

    ... and the challenge would come by balancing these against each other. A good and quite straightforward UP could be increased GP birth rate (many famous Indian scholars lived under the Guptas), to accompany these goals.

    Another possibility is increase the barbarian threat and make the third goal to defend against them, which would shift their feeling a little more in the defensive military direction, but imo there is enough of this at China's northern border already.
     
  10. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    UHV 2 Blame Guptas for numbers, zero and accurate value of pi and your math suffering -- and require human player to be first in discovering Astronomy and Drama :)

    UHV 1 -- Recreate Gupta Empire


    UHV3 Have 16 turns (2 back to back) Golden ages or never loose a city to barbarians.

    You set the dates and specific techs to be discovered -- I am still not fluent with tech rates and hidden modifiers...

    UU -- Woodsman 2 promoted archers

    UB -- Shiva/Vishnu sculpture replaces Budha sculpture +20% GP rate

    UP -- Research rate improves with stability. -2% discount on every positive 1 stability.


    I find it strange that 2 Maurya UHVs focus on shrines. How about 2nd UHV to represent their obsession with spies? Lets replace 2 Shrines with 2 Scotland Yards (Den of Spies) -- this would help humans to tech in right direction for courthouses. Just move Scotland Yard somewhere to Diplomacy. Alternatively -- population peaked 40 mln under Mauryas -- some food goal can be nice. UHV 3 really should be to export Buddhism (combined shrine income would represent export of Hinduism) -- Buddhism to 25% maybe? In any case Maurya UHVs without mentioning Buddhism somehow sounds like insult to Ashoka :)

    Also is there any way you could include Kama Sutra as some fun flavor Wonder which can be created by Great Artist like Shahnameh in SoI. People need some kicks after heavy modding and mathing :mischief:. It could greatly improve procreation -- not to mention happiness :lol:
     
  11. Leoreth

    Leoreth 古典部の会員 Moderator

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    Oh, please no goal that says "conquer the area you were going to conquer anyway without this goal". It's a wasted slot.

    But I like your idea of a population based goal for Maurya, something like that's really lacking in the game currently.
     
  12. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    I don't have much knowledge about the Gupta, so I don't know if those are historical, but the sound very fun to do. I'm in favour of these.

    I never liked (but this is personal) it when an units has the 2nd layer of a promotion, without having the first.

    The UB you suggested is the same as the Tibetan UB. (But with +20% GP rate instead of +10% GP rate)
     
  13. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    With the same token Mauryas should not be asked to get their greatest extend area. Human Gupta player otherwise would go with most profitable city spots -- expand in South India for example and neglect Gujarat. I mean one can still do crazy stuff and risk his stubility with razing cities in China, but at least he needs to pay tribute to the Historical Gupta Empire if he wants to score the first UHV...

    Well, what i meant is Woodsman 1 and 2...
     
  14. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    Oh, I see. But isn't this a bit too strong?
     
  15. Leoreth

    Leoreth 古典部の会員 Moderator

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    Okay, but in my opinion it's more elegant to balance the other UHV requirements so that you can only fulfill them by capturing your historical territory in the process.
     
  16. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Well, it wont help with capturing or defending cities, just a fast movement in jungles and strong defense there. Very narrow specialized advantage, I would say...
     
  17. civ-addicted

    civ-addicted Chieftain

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    Spoiler :
    1. Claim the Mandate of Heaven by 1280 AD OR Conquer or vassalize Gokturks, Yuezhi and Ghaznavids by 1250 AD
    2. Control or vassalize Nanzhao, Korea and Burma in 1320AD OR Construct 25 Muslim buildings including the Jamia Masjid
    3. Conquer or vassalize Ming, Vietnam and Japan after the Ming Birth OR Control 25% of all land, including half of India
    As i said, either part is only possible if you choose to be the Yuan Empire or the Chagatai Khanate.
    I thought that it would be quite cool if you'd could have 2 mongol LH to choose from, and the UHVs would be link to either of them instead of the civ itself. But including that can wait.

    That's a nice idea:lol: I like it better if a wonder that doesn't resemble a building is better as a Project, like the Yassa fe. A giant book or something along those lines looks strange among other buildings.

    Exactly. A "conquer that exact territory as i say" is only appropiate if you wouldn't do it for any other reason; you'd be pretty stupid to invade Russia as Germany because it doesn't offer a lot and wrecks your stability.
    Unless you really have no better idea for another goal:p

    @all: thanks for the suggesitions, they all go in consideration.
     
  18. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    I was asking about UP, not UHVs...
     
  19. civ-addicted

    civ-addicted Chieftain

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    Oh, sorry. The UP stays more or less the same; i modified it so there spawn more groups with less Keshiks more frequently, and overall the pressure on China becomes bigger.
    Gameplaywise, that's just the best solution.
     
  20. Civciv5

    Civciv5 Grand Emperor

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    What happened to the "Buddhist Council"?
    I read it in the first post of the general thread.
     

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