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[BNW] Rhye's Catapult 2020-06-02

Rhye

's and Fall creator
Joined
May 23, 2001
Messages
9,843
Location
Japan / South America
[Edit 3/7/2021:
ANNOUNCEMENT: new forum created
https://forums.civfanatics.com/forums/rhyes-and-fall.605/
]


[Edit 1/1/2021:
ANNOUNCEMENT: Rhye's and Fall will be completed and released as soon as it's ready, hopefully this late spring. You can check the updates on this thread or on rhye.civfanatics.net. This thread is about Rhye's Catapult, which is a middle step, but a new thread or forum for Rhye's and Fall will also be opened.
Download of Rhye's Catapult have been suspended, and will be again available only when the complete Rhye's and Fall is ready.
If you want to help testing, please contact me by private message to arrange some testing in the upcoming months.]

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Dear Civ community,

I hope you are all healthy and safe.

I'm happy to announce here the release of "Rhye's Catapult" for Civ5 [EDIT 2nd of June: relased the first alpha].
This is happening because of...Coronavirus. This worldwide disaster had the unexpected collateral effect of giving free time at home...


So, if any of you is still playing Civ5 and eager to play RFC, you are welcome to contribute to the feedback.
I'd like to keep this thread as not only as a place to post feedback, but also for me to ask advice, in case I get stuck in the development.

I imagine many of you will have some questions, so here is a Q&A:



What's Rhye's Catapult?

Some of you will remember Rhye's Catapult in the early stages of Civ4. For the others: it's the working title for a Rhye's and Fall-style mod, without its complete additional features. It is somehow related to Civ3's "Rhye's of Civ - the Fastest Loading Mod".
Therefore, this Catapult for Civ5 will contain a specifically tailored world map with a smooth rise and fall system. No fancy stuff like UHVs or full overhauls for now... (however, the future addition of external mods could be considered).



What's peculiar of Rhye's Catapult for Civ5?

I saw that in the meantime, many other modders released pieces of RFC, such as delayed spawns, revolution, realistic city naming, etc. Even the official game series incorporated some concepts such as congresses and city states.
Indeed it's possible to build up your own RFC-style mix using existing mods, but I haven't found an all-in-one solution, and didn't find comfortable playing with the available world maps, for a variety of reasons.

The goal of Catapult is not to turn Civ5 upside down, but just to allow an enjoyable experience in playing the Earth map, which should behave as a historical simulator.

The most important part of this mod is the map, which satisfies 2 prerequisites at the same time:
1-big enough to allow a comfortable 1 unit per tile movement
2-small enough to allow a reasonable loading time.
The result is a 134x74 map that is smaller than the standard big size (128x80) but has room for movement (see screenshots)

On the top of it, a system of 22 major civs + 30 minor civs is implemented.
A system of rotation of civs and city states will limit the number of actors on the stage, containing loading times (on my PC, 1-2 seconds at the beginning, to reach 15-20 when the map is populated).
Delayed starts also help cutting loading times of autoplay (something similar to the 600AD starting point of RFC).
City names map and settlers map modifiers will be added.



What happened to Rhye's and Fall of Civilization?

Works on the Civ5 version were started immediately. With the help of Gedemon, Seraphim and other civfanatics.
It wasn't easy because my PC was too weak for the game, and any time there was a crash (which happened a lot) I had to wait sometimes hours: to reload the game, investigate, try a fix and re-run the autoplay. Autoplay was heavy also for other testers, apparently.
On the top of that, every time Firaxis released a patch or a DLC it was an interference with my plans for the mod.
Finally, all of a sudden my free time was over, and the mod was left as "a thing to do".



What happened to Rhye?

To say it shortly...I have been busy. I know this is not enough explanation and I need to apologise...
If you want to know more in detail you can read the spolier.

Spoiler :

2010 Started working on RFC for Civ5
2011 The RFC development goes on but far to be completed, also because collaborators sometimes had to leave. At some point moved to Japan, changed field to robotics; started Ph.D.; free time to zero due to the frantic lifestyle of Tokyo.
2012 Moved to Germany and back through many business trips, free time even less than the previous year. Found external help to do some more progress on RFC, but couldn't integrate on the previous versions.
2013 Moved to the US, then Germany, then Japan and other places in a rush to finish Ph.D. Uninstalled Civ5.
2014 Moved to the Netherlands, Brazil, then to London in a restless barbarian fashion
2015 Moved back to Japan, started post-doc; published a scientific article on the mechanisms of RFC together with Soren Johnson
2016 Heavy workload; keep developing robots
2017 Bought Civ6, quickly gave up; moved to Russia and then Peru
2018 Working in Japan/Peru, heavy work load with teaching duties
2019 Same as 2018. My work can be seen here: http://rhye.civfanatics.net/gabu/press.php




Why Civ5 instead of Civ6?

When I bought Civ6 I made up my mind that it wasn't going to happen, because of Civ6 districts, which make a game more as a sort of "Age of Empires", in the sense that you have a few bases (cities) for which you construct buildings and fight against other players bases. This doesn't seem to work well on a grand-scale game on a world map: in fact my only game played with the Earth map I spawned in the Amazon and it was all pretty uninspiring.
Furthermore, I don't like the Civ6 cartoonish appearance. So well, it's a great game, but not for RFC.



---------


So, I hope to be forgiven for the long absence!
Many times I felt guilty for leaving a halfway developed mod, long awaited by the community, lost somewhere in an external hard disk in a shelf...
For now I am not committing for an extensive mod like RFC nor for a totally bug-free code, as I don't want to repeat the same mistake of ambition, but I decided to keep things small and provide you what I have, which will be released whether it's perfect or not, and I hope you will find it enjoyable.
 
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Rhye

's and Fall creator
Joined
May 23, 2001
Messages
9,843
Location
Japan / South America
Screenshots from v45
v45carib.png

v45hunsCut.jpg

v45vlad.png


Screenshots from v34
Arabia.png


Screenshots from v26
Screenshot 2020-05-17 22.39.23.png

eu.jpg


Screenshots from v22
Screenshot 2020-05-03 16.22.15.png

Screenshot 2020-05-03 16.20.53.png

Screenshot 2020-05-03 18.06.12.png



Screenshots from v11



 
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NinjaCow64

Thought Bubble Thinker
Supporter
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
8,262
This is pretty epic. Might redownload CivV for this!
 

NinjaCow64

Thought Bubble Thinker
Supporter
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
8,262
What civilisations and city states are you planning to include?
 

Rhye

's and Fall creator
Joined
May 23, 2001
Messages
9,843
Location
Japan / South America
What civilisations and city states are you planning to include?

Right, good question.

It can still change anytime, but so far, this is the list of the 22 playable civs.
The civs which historically had a big world-wide impact were prioritised.

Spoiler :

Egypt
India
China
Greece
Persia
Rome
Japan
Korea
Huns
Arabia
France
Spain
England
Germany
Russia
Netherlands
Portugal
Inca
Mongolia
Aztecs
Turkey
America


The Huns are a special case and still experimental: I want to see how it works with a civ that starts with no settlers and just brings destruction (since the barbarians can't capture cities).

There's a long list of "minor civs", which can have one or more city states:
Spoiler :

BABYLONIA
PHOENICIA
ISRAEL
CELTIA
MAYA
ETHIOPIA
INDONESIA
BYZANTIUM
VIKINGS
SIAM
POLAND
SWEDEN
AUSTRIA_HUNGARY
BRAZIL
NATIVE_AMERICANS
AFRICA
TIBET
VIETNAM
ASIA
PAPAL_STATE
ITALY
MEXICO
ARGENTINA
LATIN_AMERICA
CONFEDERACY
CANADA
AUSTRALIA

and our beloved "INDEPENDENTS"




All these civs are activated in a selective way, depending on the human player's civ and era. This helps limiting the game complexity and loading times.
 

mbbcam

Prince
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
585
Location
Cambridge
Thank you everyone! I sincerly hope that the Civ5 community is not completely dead.
Perhaps we can try to call people back here from Civ6 and Civ4.
Feel free to ask any questions on the mod contents.

There is some activity in the Strategy & Tips section of the forums, including a pretty active series of games posted for other players. You might want to post there or take a look to see what is going on.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
680
My questions:
1. Is there going to be a city name map in the future?
2. Do these minor civs work the same or differently as city-states? I have a document somewhere in my personal files developing an idea of an RFC for Civ5 and I was thinking about minor civs that could work that way.
3. What are your own views on other RFC inspired mods like RFC Europe, Sword of Islam, etc?
 

Rhye

's and Fall creator
Joined
May 23, 2001
Messages
9,843
Location
Japan / South America
1. yes, there will be, it's a basic feature
2. they are literally city states that control more than one city. For instance Carthage may control Carthage itself, Leptis and other cities.
We have to test it ingame to see if it works properly.
3. hopefully we can see the same development of spin-offs carried out also for civ5. But first I have to release Catapult and later possibly integrate other components
 

black213

Emperor
Joined
Mar 12, 2010
Messages
1,686
This is so nice to hear! I didn't expect to see more of this project.
Will the core gameplay be the same as in the basegame? Is a Vox Populi version possible? :drool:
 

Rhye

's and Fall creator
Joined
May 23, 2001
Messages
9,843
Location
Japan / South America
This is so nice to hear! I didn't expect to see more of this project.
Will the core gameplay be the same as in the basegame? Is a Vox Populi version possible? :drool:

I believe that vox populi can't be directly integrated into this. However, I'm open to integrate small parts if necessary,
and to leave the mod code available for anyone from vox populi who may want to do that (you may want to use this Earth map, for example)
 

Rhye

's and Fall creator
Joined
May 23, 2001
Messages
9,843
Location
Japan / South America
Welcome back. Not sure if your planning on rolling your own DLL or not, but if you want, you’re welcome to branch off of the Community Patch. Lots of new API hooks and a vastly better AI.

Good luck!

Thank you!
I am planning to do everything without DLL. It seems to be very difficult to compile now in 2020, with many software versions that changed.
I probably don't need it to achieve the purpose of the mod, and if I leave it DLL-free, it will be easy for any user to replace it with their own.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
680
Something that kept Civ4's community alive is that the game's far more mod-friendly than Civ5. I hope a mix of several mods can be added to create RFC5.


On the other hand, I came up with an idea, but you guys will need to tell me how viable it is: What if a player wants to play a civilization not in the list of playable civs?

I'll brainstorm something and Rhye will know this better than me but I have the idea of replacing the 22nd slot with all if the remaining civs, the rule being that only one of them is on the map as a major civ and only available to the human player, otherwise the civ will be represented on the map as minor civs/barbarians/city-states, while the other 21 are always present as major civs no matter what. I'd pick the Hun slot to be replaced with Huns/Babylonia/Israel/Celts/etc. I hope I'm explaining myself.

PS: What does "Confederacy" mean on the list of minor civs? Is it the Confederate States of America?
 

Rhye

's and Fall creator
Joined
May 23, 2001
Messages
9,843
Location
Japan / South America
Something that kept Civ4's community alive is that the game's far more mod-friendly than Civ5. I hope a mix of several mods can be added to create RFC5.


On the other hand, I came up with an idea, but you guys will need to tell me how viable it is: What if a player wants to play a civilization not in the list of playable civs?

I'll brainstorm something and Rhye will know this better than me but I have the idea of replacing the 22nd slot with all if the remaining civs, the rule being that only one of them is on the map as a major civ and only available to the human player, otherwise the civ will be represented on the map as minor civs/barbarians/city-states, while the other 21 are always present as major civs no matter what. I'd pick the Hun slot to be replaced with Huns/Babylonia/Israel/Celts/etc. I hope I'm explaining myself.?

I actually did try some similar experiments already. There is a function SetActivePlayer that looked promising. But replacing graphics and info after the game starts seems to not work.
Maybe it would work if it's all done in PreGame... replacing scenario data with manually scripted scenario settings in Lua.
 
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