Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Modpacks' started by Rhye, Feb 5, 2004.

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Rate this mod!

  1. I can't play Civ without this: no more loading times!

    203 vote(s)
    66.6%
  2. A good mod, but I won't play with it

    54 vote(s)
    17.7%
  3. I don't like the map

    13 vote(s)
    4.3%
  4. I don't like the terrain

    9 vote(s)
    3.0%
  5. I don't like the additions

    5 vote(s)
    1.6%
  6. I don't like the rules changes

    21 vote(s)
    6.9%
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  1. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    In the current scheme Judaism comes before Christianity.
    In this moment a red cross seems the best choice. Another Jew wonder is needed.The Wailing Wall?
     
  2. Blasphemous

    Blasphemous Graulich

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    Temple mount IS the Wailing Wall... The idea is to simply represent both the two temples and the Wailing Wall in one wonder (same place, three different eras)... It's not fair to have two world wonders that only one nation can build. One of those is enough (since it means the Hebrews will definately get it and most other nations will be lucky to get one of the four wonders they will be able to build.)
     
  3. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

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    I agree with Blas that there should only be one wonder for a religion that has only one adherent; otherwise they get TWO without competition! That is simply unconciousable, especially for a civilization that has not had a state for such an extended period of time.

    Of course, this same attack works on America and pretty much all ananchronisms.

    Historicity aside, one builder should mean one wonder, simply to preserve balance.
     
  4. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    what about egypt (the only owner of egyptian polytheism + muslim trait).
    It would be much stronger.
    Consider that Israel hasn't got 2 Israel-only trait, but only one. For this reason they need 2 wonders
     
  5. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

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    Hmm... very true...

    Well if you put it that way...

    Give each of them one? That way the regions that have the later religions will have their boost later, while the ones with the earlier ones will get a sooner boost, but will have their wonders become worthless over time.

    Here is the reason I think this is valid.

    Take Egypt for example:

    As a state, it was always a strict adherent of the original religion; it was only after it had ceased to exist as a state (was defeated in C3C terms) that new religions came into play there. The state cult, the cult of the Pharaoh was in essence their form of government.

    This is true for France (notice it is not called Gaul) which has always been Catholic, and England (created after the conquest of post-Roman Britain by Scandinavian Frenchmen... if that makes sense).

    Its not enough for places like Persia, which has ceased to exist and reappeared several times throughout the course of history, frequently with new religions, for Reformation countries, and for countries, like China, with two state cults (a mixture of Taoism and Confucianism) up until the replacement of the state cult with the communist state.

    This is why I suggest it as a possibility and not one that I intend to push very hard; I am merely presenting it as a possibility, as I am not sure myself if it is a good idea!

    Carthago delenda est! ;p

    Eastern Orthodox religion is represented right? I was too lazy/stupid to puzzle out that chart you set up ;p
     
  6. Blasphemous

    Blasphemous Graulich

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    Basically, it will not be balanced unless the religions have similar numbers of nations that have them, because if you just have Paganism for half the world, and then you have Egypt and Israel with their own private religions in the ancient age, those two nations get a huge boost due to the exclusive wonder/s that they would have.
    So, I propose you fuse the three Polytheisms into one (with one wonder for each set of gods, each requiring a resource that's found mostly in the right area - furs for norse, incense for egpytian, and I dunno what for greek.) Also, split Paganism into as many parts as you need to make them each have the same number of nations (more or less) and a similar number to that of Polytheism. The number of nations in the religion should dictate the number and power of the wonders for that religion. If Judaism only has one nation, it should only have one wonder (it SHOULD have less, but the Hebrews only get one religion so that's fair, especially if it's not such a killer wonder.) If Polytheism now has *counts* 10 nations (wow, more than I had thought) then 3 wonders is just fine. Paganism has 14 nations. Split it into two halves (Eastern Paganism and Paganism works very well) and you have one religion of 8 and one of 6, relatively balanced. Give Eastern Paganism 3 wonders (which will be hell to think up...) and Paganism 2 wonders (or 3 considering we're talking about strong nations) and we got three balanced large religions. Hindu which seems to be exclusive to India should get one weak wonder (or even just an improvement or small wonder sicne they also get another religion.) Buddhism should get one strong wonder or two weakish ones (or one medium wonder and a small wonder or an improvement.) Mesoamerican should get 1 good wonder (cause even a great wonder won't make the mesoamericans a superpower, with their location.) Christianity with 19 nations (how exactly can Ethiopia have both CRI and MUS? They both come in at the same time, don't they?) should have something like 4 strong wonder and an improvement. Islam with 8 should get 2 good wonders (Jihad/Holy War plus I guess the black stone of Mecca) and the mosque improvement.
    -Abrupt end of post.-
     
  7. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    Yes, there must be some scaling: 1, 2 or 3 wonders depending on the number of civs involved in the race.

    I need to know some wonders that could be:

    -a couple more generic pagan (for now Easter Island statues is the only thing that came in my mind)
    - one more norhern european (for now I have stonehenge)
    - one shintoist
    - one hinduist
    - one buddhist (there must be somewhere useful in Tibet, I don't remember what)
    - one more norse
    - one more christian (what about the Papal state?)
    - one more jewish (to put on middle ages tech tree. I think the best is giving a tech called "Jewish Theology" or something like that).
     
  8. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    this is the updated list.
    I've merged atlantic european nations (celtic) with norse polytheism. It is now a generic Nordic.
    Added confucianism, shintoism and zoroastrianism.
    Corrected Ethiopia.

    ROM GRE CRI
    EGY EGY MUS
    GRE GRE CRI
    BAB ZOR MUS
    GER NOR CRI
    RUS PAG CRI
    CHI CON BUD
    AME PAG CRI
    JAP SHI BUD
    FRA PAG CRI
    IND HIN MUS
    PER ZOR MUS
    AZT MES CRI
    ZUL PAG CRI
    IRO PAG CRI
    ENG NOR CRI
    MON PAG BUD
    SPA GRE CRI
    SCA NOR CRI
    OTT PAG MUS
    AUT NOR CRI
    ARA PAG MUS
    CAR GRE MUS
    KOR CON BUD
    ISR JUD
    ETH PAG MUS
    HOL NOR CRI
    POR NOR CRI
    BYZ GRE CRI
    INC MES CRI
    MAY MES CRI
     
  9. Blasphemous

    Blasphemous Graulich

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    I think the Hebrews should only get one great wonder plus possibly Syanagogue (something between Temple and Cathedral, and reduces corruption a bit.) It's simply unfair to give a single nation two exclusive wonders.
    Also I think Egypt should not get its own religion (and thus wonders) if it can be avoided. And it can be avoided, via the scheme I proposed before... I'll see how I would change the setup tomorrow, too tired right now to properly concentrate...
    I just finished my game as Persia in 2.62... Space Race victory (though it was close - Russia and Greece each had 7 parts built, and japan had 8). I'm gonna continue playing just for fun since I haven't yet realized my real goal - world domination. I only raced for space so as not to lose (I started the Apollo Program when the Russians completed their first SS part.)
     
  10. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    Why should I merge Egypt with the rest of the polytheisms?
    There are other civs in the same situation - India, China, Japan.

    BTW why don't you start a test game with 0.21 instead?
     
  11. Jaguar

    Jaguar Lurker

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    Pottery required for Hoplite and such.
     
  12. Jaguar

    Jaguar Lurker

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    It's 0.22 now, isn't it?


    Egypt definitely shouldn't be merged with anyone else. I think they should have a free shot at the Pyramids.
     
  13. Blasphemous

    Blasphemous Graulich

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    I think that any religion that gives just one nation the exclusive right to build a wonder is problematic... With the Hebrews it can't be helped but with the Egyptians and possibly with India, China and Japan it can and should be helped... The whole point of the concept of great wonders is that there is competition involved in getting them. It's unbalancing when a nation can liesurely build one of these on their free time.
    I intend to start a test game on 0.22 soon, it's just those Byzantines look so damn tasty that I can't resist going to war, even if they are in an MPP with Japan - I've got MPPs with Greece and America, I'm covered.
    Who should I play as in 0.22? I'll play whoever needs testing in most fields, just tell me what to pay attention to and I'll report whatever I can.
    Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go collapse with exhaustion. Watching American televised (Vice-)Presidential debates is dead tiring. =\
     
  14. staf48

    staf48 Chieftain

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    Thanks a lot Rhye, it works now! I played it a bit yesterday evening and it looks up to what I expected... really great.
    There's just a minor thingy, sometimes in the diplomacy screens the opening text (the greetings from the AI's king) is garbled. But I can live with that.

    Grazie mille.
     
  15. Lachlan

    Lachlan Great Builder of Civs !

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    I will play 0.50 or later

    Sorry, i wrote 2.50 per error
     
  16. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    I've having some troubles with my HD :(
    It makes a strange noise.

    I hope to save as many data as possible.
     
  17. Metatr0n

    Metatr0n Chieftain

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    Pre-Islamic Arabs were largely Christian and Jewish (in religious terms) - there was quite heavy pagan elements intergrated into their beliefs, such as they revered the three daughters of Allah. Many Arab cities were Judaised and many christianised - it would be possible to assign them either Judaism or christianity as there pre-islamic religion without deviating at all from history.

    They certainly weren't pagan, as they revered the same god as jews and christians - even in pre-islamic culture.

    Also Ethiopia is an extremely important seat of christianity and many of the earliest christians were to be found there. Indeed some believe that the ark of the covenant is secreted in Ethiopia where it is guarded by Ethiopian holymen. Today Ethiopian Orthodox is the principle religion - not Islam.
     
  18. Asclepius

    Asclepius AWOL

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    I guess you're looking for ancient building wonders so here's a few ideas.

    * Generic Pagan - Sammallahdenmäki cairn cemetery (in Finland) Bronze age or Grotte de Lascaux with its neolithic cave paintings.
    * Northern European - Can't think of much that is as good as Stonhenge. Maybe Li Loghi giants tomb on Sardinia, Los Millares or La Tène ancient settelments in Spain and Switzerland.
    * Shinto - Izumo Taisha or Itsukushima shrines. Both arguably the oldest Shinto sites.
    * Hindu - Temple of Kandariya (temples are called mandir's)
    * Buddhist - Palace complex (temple) of Sanchi. The oldest and most beautiful Buddhist buildings.
    * Norse - Temple of Uppsala in Sweden, a Nordic temple to the gods Thor Wodin and Frey.
    * Christian - Well there are loads in the game already so I'll leave that to you.
    * Jewish - The Cave of Machpelah, the Tomb of the Patriarchs, the oldest Jewish site.

    As Ethiopia is in the game, the Obelisks of Axum should be in somewhere. They are a true ancient wonder which outclass many other wonders in the game.

    You might want to add the Temple of Heaven in Beijing for the Chinese as well.
     
  19. Metatr0n

    Metatr0n Chieftain

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    Perhaps Angkor What could be a Budhist wonder.

    For Northern Europe you could have the Nebra Star disc - it could increase scientific output by a small amount that fell at around 1600bc.

     
  20. Three_Crowns

    Three_Crowns Information Retrieval

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    Norse wonders: -The Jellinge Stone (ca. 965 AD, A sort of "constitution/birth certificate" of Denmark/Norway, stating that Harald Blåtand is king of all Denmark and Norway, and he has made them christian - should probably effect religion or corruption).
    -Trelleborg (A major military facility from ca. 980 AD - could be similar to Great Wall or Sun Tzu).
    -and maybe Stave Churches instead of Cathedrals.
     
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