Rhye's of Europe Civ Discussion Thread

[st.lucifer]

Regarding wonders, have we decided whether all colonial wonders, both National Wonders and Global Wonders, will count towards the UHV? I believe I asked that earlier. Same with 3Miro's idea of colonies providing major and minor resources, which I do agree with and made a suggestion about above.

EDIT @3Miro. When sedna has posted the remaining UU and UB files, would it be possible to have a new test version available soon? The last was Oct. 22nd I believe.

I would be happiest having it be global wonders only. I like the major/minor split idea, too.

 

[sedna17]

Okay, I've posted a link to a new file with all the UUs and UBs on the Files thread. Not all the Uniques are the same as proposed on the Wiki, due to graphical or other technical problems. Feel free to register strong disagreements if you want. There are probably mistakes -- so let me know about them too.

You can either wait for 3Miro to produce a new official version or just download the Oct22 version and then inside the mod copy the Assets Folder from Nov4.zip over into the Assets Folder from Oct22. Hit replace all and Windows will merge these folders in a smart way and you should be good to go.

 

[3Miro]

I have missed the past file updates from sedna. Sorry about that. I have the Inquisitors AI now and I will post a new test version tonight (I hope to add more UHVs to it).

 

[jessiecat]

I have missed the past file updates from sedna. Sorry about that. I have the Inquisitors AI now and I will post a new test version tonight (I hope to add more UHVs to it).

I'll wait for the official version. One question though. Is it possible to make each civ start with its default religion? Or hadn't we decided about that yet?

 

[3Miro]

I made Byzantines start with Orthodoxy, I don't know about the Islamic nations. Burlgaria and the Russias should not start with a state religion. I am not sure about the west.

 

[jessiecat]

I made Byzantines start with Orthodoxy, I don't know about the Islamic nations. Burlgaria and the Russias should not start with a state religion. I am not sure about the west.

In the last test version (Oct 22) the Byzantines start with Orthodoxy and the Arabs found Islam in the first turn. Play-testing the others is nearly impossible due to the early instability. Partly because they cannot build religious buildings not even a temple. If they all started with a religion they'd be much more stable and playable, I think.

 

[3Miro]

Nov 4 version is in place. I hope the Prosecutor's AI works well enough.

UHVs and UPs were added since the last version as well as sedna's UU and UB.

UHV clarification: for the Norse's control 50% of Britain, how do we do that, have more cities than everybody else put together or have X number of cities or own specific region.

For the files: rapidshare said something stupid of the sort of "the file would be deleted after 10 downloads", if you encounter problems, I will put it on another server as well.

 

[jessiecat]

Nov 4 version is in place. I hope the Prosecutor's AI works well enough.

UHVs and UPs were added since the last version as well as sedna's UU and UB.

UHV clarification: for the Norse's control 50% of Britain, how do we do that, have more cities than everybody else put together or have X number of cities or own specific region.

For the files: rapidshare said something stupid of the sort of "the file would be deleted after 10 downloads", if you encounter problems, I will put it on another server as well.

Have downloaded the above Nov 4 test version. Unfortunately Sedna's latest Nov 4 files are not included so many of the UUs and UBs are not there. (everything after Genoa). Have tried to add them myself but without much luck. Could you help? Maybe you could include the latest file and repost the test version. Sorry to be a pain.

As per the Norse UHV I'd see it as most cities in Britain (not Ireland) so even if they had 4 cities to Englands 3 they'd fulfill the UHV. Or it could be just build 4 cities. That would be OK too.

Not had that problem with rapidshare though sometimes I have to wait when it says "you have exceeded your free allocation" but its OK if I try again after 2 or 3 minutes.

 

[Cornelio]

I like the idea of major/minor resources too. And if slaves are going to be something similar to stone, they would speed up some of the colonies.
Btw, I really don't object adding slaves.

A new list, shrunk to 10 colonies.

West India Company (National)
----Precondition for WIC colonies
East India Company (National)
----Precondition for EIC colonies

WIC
Gold Coast
----4 slaves, 2 gold
Ivory Coast
----4 ivory, 2 slaves
Cuban Plantations (100% building with slaves)
----4 tobacco, 2 coffee
Brazil (100% building with slaves)
----4 sugar, 2 tobacco
Hudson bay company
----6 fur

EIC
Far Eastern Treaty Port (National)
----1 tea
Indian Trading Post (National)
----1 silk
East Indies (100% building with slaves)
----4 spices, 2 coffee
Malaysia (100% building with slaves)
----4 sugar, 2 spice
Cape Town
----4 wine, ???? +1 stability for EIC colonies????

6 slaves
2 gold
4 ivory
6 tobacco
4 coffee
8 sugar
6 fur
6 spices
4 wine
tea and silk are national

All regions are in (N-America, S-America, Caribbean, W-Africa, S-Africa, India, East Indies, China)

 

[3Miro]

there are no UU and UB past Genoa because sedna hasn't coded them yet. New version would be out as soon as he codes them.

 

[jessiecat]

there are no UU and UB past Genoa because sedna hasn't coded them yet. New version would be out as soon as he codes them.

Sorry to contradict you. I think you'll find he has coded them. I've downloaded his latest file from the files thread and reposted it below. This includes the rest of the UUs and UBs which are not in the test, I think.

EDIT For some reason, when I try to put replace Assets with this file, it lists the new UUs and UBs in Assets but not once you start the game itself. Obviously I'm doing something wrong.

 

[3Miro]

I missed that, sorry, my bad. I will fix it and get a newer version today.

 

[Cornelio]

The game crashes a lot when loading. I tried to play every country after England and all crashed somewhere. England itself didn't crash the first time, but after that it crashed at 11 turns before I could start playing. Tried it several times.

 

[jessiecat]

The game crashes a lot when loading. I tried to play every country after England and all crashed somewhere. England itself didn't crash the first time, but after that it crashed at 11 turns before I could start playing. Tried it several times.

Funny. I've played as the Cordobans and the Arabs and got past 1000AD (100 turns or more)
each time. Though I did crash as Cordoba about 1140. I think it may be connected to events.
Lots of them and almost all are forest fires.

 

[jessiecat]

@Cornelio. Thanks for your revised list. Can I make a few suggestions?

Tobacco was mainly grown in Eastern America, Cuba and Brazil. Later in Turkey.
Coffee was entirely grown in Arabia, Ethiopia and later in the East Indies by the Dutch
before 1800, but not in the New World until much later.
Tea was entirely grown in India, Ceylon and China and should be a colonial resource.
Sugar was mostly confined to the New World, much more so than in the East Indies.
The fur trade was almost entirely confined to Russia, Quebec and America before 1800.
There was no Hudsons Bay Company until 1790 but New France traded furs with Europe
from the 1570s. So I would replace the Hudson's Bay Company with the Quebec Colony.
The Cape Colony wasn't very important except for gold before 1800. It should be replaced
with Zanzibar or the Swahili Coast esp. for ivory and slaves.
We should include Virginia or the Jamestown Colony as the main source of tobacco.
And Charleston or the Georgia Colony the same for cotton.
Cuba should be 4 sugar and 2 tobacco, I think.
I really think we should allow up to 3 sources for each resource where appropriate IMO.

Lets see what everbody thinks. Then I might try to do a revised list incorporating both our ideas tomorrow.

 

[Cornelio]

The Cape Colony wasn't very important except for gold before 1800. It should be replaced with Zanzibar or the Swahili Coast esp. for ivory and slaves.
We should include Virginia or the Jamestown Colony as the main source of tobacco.

That's not true. The Cape Colony was not mainly used for its resources but for its strategic point. It was a halfway stop to Souteast Asia. Ships were reloaded with fresh foods, making the journey easier (hence the thought of stability). Furthermore they made wine, which is a resource neither located in England nor the Netherlands.

There are already enough slaves, Zanzibar and the Swahili Coast would be useless (slaves aren't a very useful resource in this mod anyway). Both the Swahili Coast and Zanzibar were similar to the Ivory coast.

Tea was entirely grown in India, Ceylon and China and should be a colonial resource.

What's your point? It is already a colonial resource.

Jamestown and Charleston are English names. It would be odd for other nations to own those colonies. I would suggest just one colony "East American Coast" ,or something similar, for cotton and tobacco.

 

[jessiecat]

That's not true. The Cape Colony was not mainly used for its resources but for its strategic point. It was a halfway stop to Souteast Asia. Ships were reloaded with fresh foods, making the journey easier (hence the thought of stability). Furthermore they made wine, which is a resource neither located in England nor the Netherlands.

Not much wine came from S. Africa. Practically all of Europe's wine came from
France, Italy, Spain and Portugal.

There are already enough slaves, Zanzibar and the Swahili Coast would be useless (slaves aren't a very useful resource in this mod anyway). Both the Swahili Coast and Zanzibar were similar to the Ivory coast.

The slave trade was as big in East Africa as it was in West Africa. Same with ivory.

What's your point? It is already a colonial resource.

You've said it was a national resource. It should only come from colonies in Asia.

Jamestown and Charleston are English names. It would be odd for other nations to own those colonies. I would suggest just one colony "East American Coast" ,or something similar, for cotton and tobacco.

Names also describe locations. Thus Quebec is better than the Hudson's Bay Company which didn't even exist before 1790 as I've said. The Cape Colony is an English name and was owned by the Dutch for some of the time. And what's wrong with another country owning a colony with an English name? Practically everything in our mod is in English. Sorry, but the game is in English isn't it? I mean no disrespect to any other language of course.

 

[st.lucifer]

I'm fine with keeping South Africa as 'Cape Colony', or something like that, producing wine and gold, and perhaps giving a +10-20% bonus to Eastern colony production (to represent its strategic value). The resources are found elsewhere in Europe (but may still be useful), but the strategic bonus is pretty handy.

Cornelio, we haven't finalized what slaves do yet, so they may be a more valuable resource than they currently are - I wouldn't marginalize them any more than any other resource.

I'd put Zanzibar in over the Swahili Coast, with slightly different mechanics than some of the other colonies - as a trading entrepot, Zanzibar didn't necessarily produce anything directly, but trafficked in a number of commodities. Rather than producing a major and a minor resource to be traded, it might be a more accurate representation to have Zanzibar produce one of several resources: ivory, slaves, gold, tea, spices, sugar, gems, and coffee (if we have coffee. Did we have coffee on our resource list? I don't remember it being there.)

There definitely needs to be some sort of tobacco/cotton colony in the American southeast. I'd go with 'Virginia' as the largest of the original colonies - other colonies were later carved out of the original Virginia grant.

Our list of Eastern colonies is pretty thin - lots of national colonies there. I wonder if we might want to switch the Gold and Ivory coasts to the EIC, and put in the Mexican/Incan conquests for the WIC. Alternately, we could add a majority cotton/tobacco colony (perhaps Carolina), a majority tobacco/cotton colony (Virginia), and a national colony producing sugar (Carribean island).

Either way, I'm going to remove some of the sugar from the Canaries and Azores on the map. There will still be a couple available (and does the Portuguese map give those sites priority? If not, it should), but the majority of our sugar should be colonial.

I have a bit more time to think now that the election's over, so I think I'm going to work up a proposed colony list of my own in the next few days. It'll probably be quite similar to Cornelio's.

 

[onedreamer]

That's not true. The Cape Colony was not mainly used for its resources but for its strategic point. It was a halfway stop to Souteast Asia. Ships were reloaded with fresh foods, making the journey easier (hence the thought of stability).

The stability of ships/convoys crews shouldn't be connected to that of colonies population
I agree with St.Lucifer when he proposes a production bonus instead.

 

[Cornelio]

Names also describe locations. Thus Quebec is better than the Hudson's Bay Company which didn't even exist before 1790 as I've said. The Cape Colony is an English name and was owned by the Dutch for some of the time. And what's wrong with another country owning a colony with an English name? Practically everything in our mod is in English. Sorry, but the game is in English isn't it? I mean no disrespect to any other language of course.

Firstly I agree with you on the Hudson's Bay Company. Sorry I didn't mentioned before...
What I meant is first names: James, Charles etc. Some colonies were named after persons.
Cape Town in Dutch is Kaapstad, which means exactly the same. East Indies is in Dutch Oost-Indië, which also means excactly the same. We should only include universal English names like these. Not colonies named after a person of that country.

@ st. Lucifer:
Slaves form the Gold/Ivory Coast were transported by the WIC. Maybe one of them with the lesser amount of slaves could be for the EIC.

I think it would be better to make the Aztec and Incan conQUEST to be a quest that will pop after you have done some tech (Astronomy?), like I proposed before. This way they could be done without the need of a WIC or EIC, and the list of colonies wouldn't be to big. You should have to build some military and have a Great General as a precondition, and you will be rewarded with a big lump of gold representing all the treasures that have been captured.