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Rhye's of Europe Civ Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall: Europe' started by Squirrelloid, Nov 8, 2007.

  1. st.lucifer

    st.lucifer King

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    Are you asking if I'm taking over from you as far as the colony list goes? I'm not trying to reduce or eliminate your input. With most of the tasks we've worked on so far, there have been competing proposals, and the final version is some combination of what we've got. I thought that, rather than continuing to propose additions and small changes to your list, which gets confusing, I'd work up another full one. Again, while nominally I'm in charge here, I'm not interested in or comfortable being a dictator, particularly as Sedna and Miro are doing all of the coding.

    So, no - I hope you aren't done. There will always be more to do.
     
  2. 3Miro

    3Miro Deity

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    @Cornelio: the way we are doing the city name maps is via a spreadsheet. We had one somewhere, (look at the wiki). We would enter the names in excel and sedna would conver them into code. As for the renaming, we decided to rename cities only if they appear on the city name map, i.e. Byzantines start with "Hadrianopolis", but if the city was to be destroyed and reset or conquered by Bulgaria, the new name would be "Odrin". Turks would call it Ederne. There is none of the RFC "nit-picking" of the sort: if Constantinople is Byzantine and Germany conquers it, it is renamed Konstantinople. If it is Turkish (Istanbul) and is being conquered it is called Istanboul or something. We decided to leave that part out.

    @jessiecat: the entire problem with stability was that the idiot did not code it correctly (I shall not name myself, I mean the idiot). The game is actually playable now, you should see no problems in the next version.
     
  3. jessiecat

    jessiecat Divine Monarch

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    No problem. I would never call any of us an idiot. Maybe sometimes we are a little less perfect than others.:D

    Any chance of adding some modifiers to the Byzantines to tone them down a bit, like you mentioned before? They seem amazingly aggressive and never want to make peace once you're at war with them. Just tried a game as Bulgaria. Took 3 cities and tried to consolidate but they refused to make peace. Suddenly about 1000 they turned up with a huge army of cataphracts and sacked 3 of mine. They had already collapsed the Arabs. You don't want to mess with these guys. They'll get you in the end.:lol:
     
  4. civmademepoor

    civmademepoor Chieftain

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    Hello, thought I'd give Genoa a whirl. Fully aware that this is not a playable version etc. . ., but thought I'd give a more or less full rundown now. I don't know how to do the fancy screen shots, so I'll try to be verbose.

    Loading time was 20 minutes. For play purposes I'd recommend more gold, more advanced units (started with 4 warriors, two settlers). I'd add a worker, a fishing boat, sub iin archers and either pikeman. I met Burgundy, which promptly collapsed. Out of the corner of my map I could see Byzantium laying siege to Venice, which is captured a turn later with heavy crossbowman, maceman and knights. I'd also recommend Genoa start with mapmaking, and make it necessary construction of a fishing boat. (I was frustrated that I could build boats, but not use them).

    I founded Genoa and Lucca with my settlers (I thought Lucca would be in the core area, but alas I discovered differently, either that or that civil war event still impacts all cities aside from capital, not all cities except those in core area).

    A few turns later I founded what I think is where Nice is, though could be Aix or Marseilles, it ended up being named Cumae. Later founded a city near Albertville, which was name Arpinum, 2 or 3 tiles S/SW of Lake Geneva. I also founded Bastia on Corsica. It would be nice if there were some useful reason to colonize the Mediterranean islands beyond the UHV's.

    Met Spain, Hungary and Andalusia, which were all Orthodox, which was frustrating as Catholicism spread quickly to my cities. Orhtodoxy seemed the default religion, as all civs I met were Orthodox except the Norse, who were Muslims. Spain and Andalusia collapsed shortly after Portugal's arrival. Andalusia first, then Spain.

    Later met Austria, who had the city of "Zagrab" (2 "a's). I believe it is "Zagreb" in all languages except Hungarian (which has accent acutes over both "a's"), and that the Austrians called it Agram.

    Had a few great people, all seemed to appear at the right time, though the names were still off e.g my first great merchant was JM Keynes.

    By 1290 I had built some buildings. I should add that the graphics and the map etc. . . all look beautiful. When I took up close looks at my cities they all looked nice, but the Catholic church I think was stolen from the meso-american artpack, no?

    Byzantium is running roughshod all over Italy, having captured Venice, now a whopping size 19, and Rome, a svelte size 6, which it captured with hussars and Swiss. It also vassalized the Turks more or less on day one.

    The "... celebrate the electorate day" is written as "TXT_KEY_WE_LOVE_THE_ELECTORATE. . .".

    You know what's coming next, Byzantium DOW on me and immediately destroys my only source of iron to the E of Lucca. Another issue, there seemed to be a paucity of iron on the map, and I think iron is basic for all civs survival in this mod. Placement of it near all the capitals or at least in the core area would be good. I fought them off with longbowmen promoted to guerilla 2 (guerilla is the hills upgrade, right?), they were at war with Austria and Hungary at the same time so didn't really commit to the war with me). With the balestrieri (awesome unit, BTW, versatile, balanced, maybe a tad too powerful but I think little Genoa will need it), was able to secure the iron and begin building an army of balestrieri to fight back and perhaps take Rome, which was defended by only two Swiss pikeman. The mercenaries available in 1413 where axeman, archers and warriors, so not very helpful .About 2 turns into the counteroffensive idea Hungary was defeated and Austria capitulated (and I think the Kievan Rus collapsed as well), leaving Byzantium to focus on me. I was able to hold the iron and Lucca, barely, as they started attacking with grenadiers and cuirassiers, and decided the situation was hopeless. I switched to Divine Monarchy from Electorate (more for fun than anything else), and civil war ensued; I lost most of my army aside from Genoa's garrison.

    In world builder I checked out the scene. Byzantium is huge, directly controls all of Italy except the city of Genoa, much of the Ukarain, the Balkans, Wallachia, Moldovia, Bulgaria, Greece, coastal Anatolia (the Turks, their vassals, have most of the interior), the Levant, Egypt, and the lone city in Africa outside of Egypt: Barca (Bengazi for those following along at home).

    Poland and Germany are small, growing, but backwards. 7 cities with pikeman and archers each. England is also small, has four or five cities in England and southern Scotland, but aside from London they're all misplaced. Cambridge is where Liverpool actually is, for example. They've also taken two cities in northern France, Paris and where Rouen should be (named Amiens), but I could be wrong and it should be Amiens and not Rouen, as they are fairly close. Newcastle seemed to be in the right spot though. The Norse had two cities, Aarhus and Roskilde. On a side note, I think Canute might be a better leader for the Norse, Ragnar was more of a pirate than a nation builder.

    Overall, though I may seem critical above, I really liked it and thank everyone who's put so much work into it.
     
  5. 3Miro

    3Miro Deity

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    Civil war works just as in RFC, except for Byzantines.

    The version that you were playing was severely broken in terms of stability.

    Thanks for mentioning the text issue, we will fix it.

    The rest is stuff that we are aware of more or less and it is still work in progress.

    Currently I am uploading a new version.
    -Stability is fixed, now you should not get 1 star expansion for no reason, economy should also be more stable.
    -Byzantines are severely weakened (200% research, production and growth penalty plus unit maintenance cost increase), as of right now, Byzantines are probably too-weak.
    -all UP are implemented except for Portugal's one, I need the colonial projects to implement it.

    Enjoy!

    I think someone still downloaded the old version. Sorry I post while uploading and it often takes more time to upload.
     
  6. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

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    Thanks for your work 3Miro, I think the venetian and genoan UPs are much more fitting if swapped, that's what I meant.
     
  7. sedna17

    sedna17 Emperor

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    @Cornelio

    There's a little map spreadsheet at http://meat.arvixe.com/~joeyroe/rfc-europe/map301.xls, where you can put city names into comments and I have the series of scripts to convert these the appropriate format. Another option is to put in signs in the WBS and I can convert those. Dunno which you prefer.
     
  8. jessiecat

    jessiecat Divine Monarch

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    Just been playing the latest version as Arabia and I've noticed a bit of a problem. The Arabian UP states that flipped or conquered cities get a free temple and cathedral. But when you found Islam in Damascus you get nothing, not even a free mosque. Same with any other new city you found. And although you should be able to build a Grand Mosque for every 4 mosques you have, the wiki says it's 28? mosques for every Great Mosque.
    In my current game I have 8 cities. The 6 flipped or conquered ones have got both. But when I built a mosque in my holy city, Damascus, I couldn't build a Great Mosque there because I've already got 6 elsewhere.
    I think this should be changed to only a free mosque in flipped, conquered or founded cities and a free mosque and Great Mosque in Damascus and Jerusalem. Sorry to be long-winded about this but these discrepancies certainly need fixing IMO.

    BTW The Byzantines are much weaker but surviving this time. In my first try Bulgaria captured Constantinople within 5 turns and they collapsed immediately. The UP would work OK I think, if it was made much harder to conquer Constantinople in the early game.

    EDIT: 1005AD A much more balanced game. Got the first UHV. Fairly stable. Everybody still in play.
    However 3rd. UHV is incorrect. It should read East of Oran not west.

    EDIT 2: Suddenly collapsed in 1242AD due to 1 star expansion and 2 star foriegn even though peace with everybody. 3 cities flipped back to the Byzantines.
     
  9. micbic

    micbic Optimistic Pessimist

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    Hi. I am new to the site.
    I downloaded the latest version of the mod, unzipped it, transferred the inside folder to the Mods folder of BTS, loaded it, but after loading, it closed. The problematic file was the CvGameCore.dll... Please help!!!
    By the way, having read much about the ''Byzantine problem'' why not change their UP to one giving defensive bonus in units inside Constantinople"?
     
  10. jessiecat

    jessiecat Divine Monarch

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    Try downloading it to My Documents. Then unzip the whole file to BTS Mods. Open it. Click Public Maps.
    Save the WB file to desktop as a shortcut. Then just open it from there. Works for me.:)
     
  11. Cornelio

    Cornelio Chieftain

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    @ st. Lucifer

    So you are going to propose a list for us to comment on?

    @ Sedna

    If I found a city or conquer a city, a check would be made to see if the city position is on the city-name-map and the name will be changed to that name. If it's a "-1" it will not change if you have conquered the city and it will be the top of the city-name-list if I have found the city. And rename cities is for multiple names of the same city for the same civ (Konstantinopel, Istanboul). Am I correct?
     
  12. Hitti-Litti

    Hitti-Litti Deity

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    Actually that's a quite nice idea, but I think that unfortunately it would be too hard to code. :(
     
  13. 3Miro

    3Miro Deity

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    @Cornelio, yes you are technically correct for the renaming, but as of right now we are not using different names for the same city. On conquest or founding, the city name map is referenced and if there is a name corresponding to the city we use that name.

    @jessiecat, Byzantines start with couple of spearman in Constantinople, however, by the time Bulgaria spawns, those are usually gone (disbanded maybe). Spearman behind City Walls and a Castle would stop any amount of Konniks and Ghazi, that should keep Constantinople safe at least initially. I will see if giving Byzantines more money initially would help.

    I will change the Arabia UHV description, thanks for noting it.

    I will try to see why the Arabian expansion is so poor. The territory that you have should give you stable expansion. I will check what is going on, but probably not today.
     
  14. jessiecat

    jessiecat Divine Monarch

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    Can you change it so Damascus gets both religious buildings when it founds Islam too? And just mosques in every city would be better too, wouldn't it? Then you'd have to found your own Grand Mosque for every 4 cities. And as I said wiki description for Grand Mosque is incorrect too. (4 mosques needed not 28)
     
  15. micbic

    micbic Optimistic Pessimist

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    @jessiecat: actually tried that. opened the shortcut but closed after loading the mod. Are there any issues like patch compatibility?
     
  16. jessiecat

    jessiecat Divine Monarch

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    You need BTS 3.17, RFC 1.181. Nothing else I don't think. Have you tried opening my saved game above?
     
  17. micbic

    micbic Optimistic Pessimist

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    OK. So I need 3.17
    What RFC edition is provided with BTS?
     
  18. 3Miro

    3Miro Deity

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    I opened the save game, it is actually more useful if you could give an autosave 4 - 5 turns before the collapse. That way I could see what lead to the problem.

    Every Grand Mosque requires 4 Mosques. If you have conquered 6 cities then you have 6 Grand Mosques and the seventh would require 7*4 = 28 Mosques. The same issue exists in RFC. I could make it so that only the state religion and Mosques appear in the newly conquered cities.

    @micbic: the files that you extracted, did you put them in your ...\Beyond the Sword\Mods folder. You should move the RFCEurope folder in ...\Beyond the Sword\Mods. Then double-click on RFCEurope.WB file in Public Maps.
     
  19. micbic

    micbic Optimistic Pessimist

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    I did that. Now I am getting 3.17 to solve the problem
     
  20. Cornelio

    Cornelio Chieftain

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    While working on the Dutch city-name-map I found some oddities on the map.

    I think a couple of plots should be changed around England and the Netherlands. I've changed about 10 plots to sea or land in the Excel file and it looks better IMO.

    Also, some German and Burgundian/French cities around the Netherlands are misplaced. Bruxelles isn't at the same place as Brüssel and were I wanted to place Brussel. Same goes for other cities (Keulen, Köln, Cologne; Aken, Aachen, Aix-la-Chappelle and more).

    If someone could send me the Burgundian and German Excel maps, I could fix that area for those civs.
     

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