Rhye's of Europe Code Coordination thread

[Úmarth]

Rhye's of Europe project page @ the wiki

Hope I'm not stepping on any toes here (st.lucifer?)

Okay, I'd like to get the ball rolling on doing some actual modding. I think atm me and Zipzapzup are working on it so we should probably make sure we're not both doing the same thing and this way if anybody else is willing and able to help they can.

Right, so I've been trying to take in the structure of the mod for the past couple of days and I've come up with this rough plan:

(1) Since the civ list is done, let's get that into XML. It's a lot of work and translations will be an issue but it needs to be done. I expect this will pretty much cripple the mod.

(2) We'll then need to Consts.py to reflect these changes. Again, big job but pretty straightforward. We can change the dates and stuff there too while we're at it. The coordinate references must be changed to the new map.

(3) The next major file I think is RiseAndFall.py, which will be need to be edited for the new civs. Shouldn't be hard.

(4) Then the tricky bit. I think the best idea is to start disabling features (I assume deleting/moving files should be okay in most cases, but I'm not sure) or making minor changes if they seem obvious. The goal being a working game which will have the civs spawning on the new map, and collapsing due to stability.

(5) The bulk of the work now comes, we can work through feature by feature, file by file, getting things to work and testing them.

(6) Then we can start adding new features, hopefully by now completely familiar with and sick off Rhye's code.

===

So, concerning stage 1. We've already discovered the dynamic names pose a problem - we'll need to figure that one out. But there's still quite a bit to do:

* Basic details need putting into CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml and the corresponding text files. This is pretty easy so I'm hoping we can get several people collaborating (eg. take a few civs each then send the files back to one person to be merged)

* Leaderheads and flags/icons need making, I have some graphics skill (although, we need the ideas-people to tell use who the leaders are first! ) so this is something I can handle.

* Leaderheads need putting in CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml and the corresponding text files. Another big job, but we really only need to fill in basic stuff now and we can come back later to tweak behaviours.

===

So, any thoughts?

Moderator Action: Thread Moved to Rhye's of Europe Forum.
--Ozbenno

 

[Zipzapzup]

Ok lets get things done.

I think we can take the major civs France, HRE, Spain, Portugal, Turkey, England, Netherlands, Byzantium, Arabia (as Umayyas) and Russia (as Moscow) from the original for a start. So we need Burgundy, Venice, Genoa, Hungary, Andalus, Bulgaria, Papal State and Kievan Rus. So we have 8 civs to create.

I can to one or two, but i'm not familiar with graphic editing or creating leaderheads, so someone has to create the graphics first before i can do anything.


In the meantime i'll edit the const.py if its ok. I got the starting points already but i didnt get what CoreAreas, NormalAreas and BroaderAreas exactly means. If someone knows what they mean, please dont be shy.

 

[st.lucifer]

My toes feel just fine, thanks.

Thanks for taking the initiative on this - I'm sorry that I've gone dark, but the end of the semester is always a nightmare of grading and coaching responsibilities. I'll have substantial downtime next week.

What can I do that would be helpful, aside from writing actual code? Is there any information you need that isn't currently written up?

 

[Rhye]

core areas is the region that flips on spawn.
Normal areas is the region used for most of the other things (respawns, stability, some uhvs, etc.)
broader areas are used just if on spawn there is absolutely no place free and no city can flip for some reason. In other words, it's a piece of outdated code

 

[Úmarth]

Ok I'll start making graphics this week and I'll post them here. I'll only be able to do static leaderheads, but tbh I think that's better than putting beards and things on the originals

I'm sorry that I've gone dark, but the end of the semester is always a nightmare of grading and coaching responsibilities. I'll have substantial downtime next week.

Well I think that will be true for everyone around Christmas. I have exams early January too so I will not be able to get properly stuck in for a month or so.

What can I do that would be helpful, aside from writing actual code? Is there any information you need that isn't currently written up?

Info on the leaders would be appreciated. Names is all I need right away to begin looking for graphics, but eventually we'll need info on their personalities. I'll try to post up the different "traits" that need assigning values tomorrow.

 

[genovais]

Hi all,

I have no experience but would be willing to help if someone can tell me what to do and how to do it. I am English and French speaking.

Lia

 

[Úmarth]

France, HRE, Spain, Portugal, Turkey, England, Netherlands, Byzantium, Arabia (as Umayyas) and Russia (as Moscow)

I thought we weren't including the HRE?

 

[st.lucifer]

I thought we weren't including the HRE?

! No, we aren't. We're doing Austria and Germany seperately. If we're recycling a civ, use the German leaderhead/city names for Germany, and I'll figure something out for Austria.

We've also got the Norse and Sweden, which weren't on that original list.

Glad you noticed.

 

[Úmarth]

Right, so the actual civ list is (with the names for coding purposes, rather than the finished ones):

England (England)
France (France)
Netherlands (Netherlands)
Spain (Spain)
Portugal (Portugal)
Norse (Vikings)
Germany (Germany)
Moscow (Russia)
Byzantium (Byzantium)
Ottomans (Turkey)
Arabia (Arabia)

Burgundy (New)
Cordoba (New)
Sweden (New)
Genoa (New)
Venice (New)
Papacy (New)
Poland (New)
Austria (New)
Hungary (New)
Kiev (New)
Bulgaria (New)

 

[Úmarth]

I've done the first set of flags. I've tried to base it on heraldry, since we're talking Medieval, and simplified where possible. These are just a "first draft" so of course this is open for discussion.

They're stretched 25% horizontally, that's just a quirk with the game.

Spain was a bit iffy... I chose Castille's arms almost arbitrarily. Input on that would be appreciated.

I also had problems with Moscow + Kiev, couldn't find a coat of arms or anything. Any ideas?

 

[Zipzapzup]

Oh damn i forgot some. xD

Dont know what Kievan Rus exactly was, but when i tried to find some flags with google i found the ukrainian flag?

Perhaps we can use some of the already existing leaderheads and graphics from the download-section? http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=4

 

[Ajidica]

EMA has a Kievian Rus flag. Although I also think theat the Russian flag from in-game is good. MTW also has a messed up ships sail like thing for Russia, so I have no clue about that one. For coding, I can only do a little bit of XML if you need someone to add units or other basic things like that. To see exactly what I mean, look at my 300AD mod in my sig. Its for Civ 1.74.

On the flags:
The Byzantine flag looks alot like the Swastika and Eagle of Nazi Germany. St.Georges Cross or the Labarum would be good.
The Norse flag shoulf not be three lions. I think it was the Raven in white outlines.
If I remember correctly, the Turks only adopted the cresent moon when they either took Constantinople or suffered a major defeat from the Timurids. The reason was that the moon was a cresent, not becasue they were Muslim. I may be wrong on that. The book where I think I read that was Byzantium: The Decline and Fall by John Julius Norwhich.

 

[st.lucifer]

I've done the first set of flags. I've tried to base it on heraldry, since we're talking Medieval, and simplified where possible. These are just a "first draft" so of course this is open for discussion.

They're stretched 25% horizontally, that's just a quirk with the game.

Spain was a bit iffy... I chose Castille's arms almost arbitrarily. Input on that would be appreciated.

I also had problems with Moscow + Kiev, couldn't find a coat of arms or anything. Any ideas?

No objections so far. Castille is probably the way to go on Spain. For Kiev, I found this: http://www.fotw.us/images/u/ua-kv-br.gif

For al-Andalus: unfortunately, all I've been able to find is Spanish heraldry for Cordoba and Granada. There's a link here: http://www.ngw.nl/int/spa/c/cordoba.htm but it's all Spanish stuff. I had a hard time with the Muslim heraldry sites.

Burgundy: http://www.ngw.nl/int/fra/dept/bourgogn.htm

Venice: http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/i/it_ven2.gif

Netherlands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Flanders.svg
(if that's too close to Germany, I'm fine with the one you suggested)

Portugal: I really like this one. http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/p/pt-1143.gif The modern one's fine, but this is a little more distinctive. Your call.

Moscow: I wanted one with a bear, but this seems to be the official one (with a long history): http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/r/ru-mow.gif

Sweden: This is Kalmar, which is where I think we'll have the Swedes spawn: http://www.civicheraldry.com/page/2858

Poland: http://www.civicheraldry.com/page/1679


Anyway, there's a start. I'll see if I can find the rest tomorrow.

 

[SadoMacho]

What do you intend to use for Burgundy. After the fall of the Roman empire, there was a kingdom og Burgundy. It was a germanic tribal kingdom like the one of the Franks, the visigoths and the Saxons,...It was conquered by the Franks and it became a part of there empire.
Later on the Duke of Burgundy (part of the kingdom of France) tried to become an independent kingdom (he became rich by the welt of Flanders), but this has nothing to do with the tribal kingdom of Burgundy. It was a vassal trying to outrun the feudal system.

It you need some help with XML, I'm willing to help. I can moddify some python-code too, but I'm not an allmighty programmer, and I currently don't have alot of time.

 

[jessiecat]

No objections so far. Castille is probably the way to go on Spain. For Kiev, I found this: http://www.fotw.us/images/u/ua-kv-br.gif

For al-Andalus: unfortunately, all I've been able to find is Spanish heraldry for Cordoba and Granada. There's a link here: http://www.ngw.nl/int/spa/c/cordoba.htm but it's all Spanish stuff. I had a hard time with the Muslim heraldry sites.

Burgundy: http://www.ngw.nl/int/fra/dept/bourgogn.htm

Venice: http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/i/it_ven2.gif

Netherlands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Flanders.svg
(if that's too close to Germany, I'm fine with the one you suggested)

Portugal: I really like this one. http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/p/pt-1143.gif The modern one's fine, but this is a little more distinctive. Your call.

Moscow: I wanted one with a bear, but this seems to be the official one (with a long history): http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/r/ru-mow.gif

Sweden: This is Kalmar, which is where I think we'll have the Swedes spawn: http://www.civicheraldry.com/page/2858

Poland: http://www.civicheraldry.com/page/1679


Anyway, there's a start. I'll see if I can find the rest tomorrow.

For Al Andalus, the closest i've found is the Pakistan flag.Green and white
are fairly correct, but traditionally each Caliphate displayed plain flags
according to their traditional colour.;
Ummayyad - green or black
Abbasid -black
Fatimids -green
Cordoban -white
For Spain I've got 2. Red and yellow are trad. Spanish colours. The first one
is for the Crown of Castille, the second is the unified Crown of Aragon
and Castille after 1479.
Also found the original starting flag of Portugal and for the Netherlands.
Hope these help.

 

[LuKo]

Poland: http://www.civicheraldry.com/page/1679

It's modern coat of arms. Much better flag is made for Polish Empire Mod (http://www.civ.org.pl/downloads.php?lang=Eng&type=Civ4&section=Mods - versions for vanilla, Warlords and BtS). There is also UU and UB

 

[Úmarth]

Perhaps we can use some of the already existing leaderheads and graphics from the download-section? http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=4

I'd prefer not to, firstly because the copyright status is iffy and we'd have to be giving credit/asking permission from a lot of people and secondly I'd like the content to look as fresh as possible.

For coding, I can only do a little bit of XML if you need someone to add units or other basic things like that. To see exactly what I mean, look at my 300AD mod in my sig. Its for Civ 1.74.

That would be very useful because the main thing we're doing right now is civs, so feel free to "claim" a couple of civs and work on their XML. We could of course use your help too SadoMacho.

The Byzantine flag looks alot like the Swastika and Eagle of Nazi Germany. St.Georges Cross or the Labarum would be good.
The Norse flag shoulf not be three lions. I think it was the Raven in white outlines.
If I remember correctly, the Turks only adopted the cresent moon when they either took Constantinople or suffered a major defeat from the Timurids. The reason was that the moon was a cresent, not becasue they were Muslim. I may be wrong on that. The book where I think I read that was Byzantium: The Decline and Fall by John Julius Norwhich.

Regarding Byzantium, the Labarum was as far as I know a religious symbol rather than a political one and I had no idea St George's cross was ever associated with Byzantium, it clearly has much stronger links with England. The eagle was a prominent symbol of Rome from the early Republic right up until the fall of Constantinople long before it was appropriated by fascists. The double-headed eagle I used not only evokes Rome but was an official emblem used by the ERE and so I think it's very appropriate.

The three lions is a symbol of the Danes (it's the main feature of the current coat of arms and goes right back to the turn of the last millennium), so yeah it isn't completely appropriate for a Norse civ. But on the other hand the Raven flag was apparently not that widespread either (http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/xn_raven.html). I'd like to hear what other people think on this to see if we can decide on one or the other.

The Turks, yes, was a problem. I think someone mentioned further down that the Muslim states tended to use plain coloured banners rather than coat of arms or flags. The red-white flag was used by the Ottomans from 1383-1793 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_flag#Flags_from_ghazi_to_emperor_.281299-1453.29), nearly the whole length of their existence in this mod. The crescent moon was added in 1453 and I thought it appropriate to include because the red-white looked too plain. And it identifies the Ottomans as belong to the Islamic "other" in our Eurocentric mod.

===

Thanks for digging up examples st.lucifer, that's saved me a lot of work. I'll do the rest of the European civs tonight. I'll leave off on the Muslims until we've got a better idea of what to do. My suggestion would be to some extent invent our own, by imposing a crescent over each of the caliphates traditional colours.

 

[Úmarth]

It's modern coat of arms. Much better flag is made for Polish Empire Mod (http://www.civ.org.pl/downloads.php?lang=Eng&type=Civ4&section=Mods - versions for vanilla, Warlords and BtS). There is also UU and UB

According to Wikipedia it's been used throughout Poland's history. What's more, the flag in the mod you linked is exactly the same

 

[Úmarth]

Alright, another set done. Just the Muslims and Kiev to go and another look at the Norse, Ottomans and Portugal.

I've gone in a different direction for Sweden st.lucifer, hope you don't mind. The three crowns were apparently a national symbol with a lot of history. I thought it better than using a provinces.

I do see a bit of an issue arising: a great many of the flags are predominantly red, which might make it difficult to assign matching colours to the civ.

 

[Zipzapzup]

Oh that will be hard.

I think we have to change them, because the civs colors are a point which can be very annoying in gameplay. Futhermore i think its bad, that many flags look largely the same with only other colors (Bulgaria/England/Norse, Netherlands/Austria, Germany/Poland). I know that this is not your fault, but in this case i think gameplay is more important then history.

Guess that is the reason why in Bts and rfc the flags looks all very different.