Rich Dad Poor Dad: Problems

[Zardnaar]

We have a bit of a problem here in New Zealand.

Basically we have Australia as neighbour's. Australia is a lot richer than us. They're one of the richest countries in the world.

Years ago we more or less synchronized our training standards with Australia and we can travel there visa free.

By now I'm sure you can see where this is heading.

Alot of jobs funded by the government (police, health, military, teaching etc) are getting head hunted by Australia. One person I know a med student is moving over there due to a pitch like "how can we double it (wages).

Stories like $5000 a week in rural locations for senior health professionals, $2500 per day for specialists. Australian dollars.

Previous government ran things down, tax brackets haven't been adjusted in decades and minimum wage inflation has meant middle class jobs are now paying barely more than minimum wage. Eg 47k for a 40 hour week vs 55k for starting teacher salary.

Wife's uncle collapsed at work needed an emergency triple bypass. Took almost a week due to lack of specialist then lack of icu capacity. 40 year wait on gender reassignment surgery (waiting list 400, 9 per year only 1 specialist). In that case thegre still slending money allocated in 2019. Kids getting sent home from school due to lack of teachers when things go wrong.

6th highest cost of housing in the would, wages not so much. Lately they've been trying to recruit from even poorer countries spent millions got 5 nurses. Once you get permanent residency I think you can get visa free access to Australia cya. Doesn't take a genius to look at wages vs cost of living.

Pay them more. The government is currently in deficit, putting up taxes probably electoral suicide. Even if they did we can't win a bidding war vs Australia. They're bigger and richer.

Only thing I can think of is build social housing for the middle class vs the poor. Heart says build them for the poor, brain says skilled professionals. Not that we can do that right either and the bubbles popped anyway.

Free tertiary for critical skills if one stays for ten years or whatever is an option but that's just delaying the problem. Free med school then sod off to Australia.

Anyway CFCs collective thoughts. Not blaming Australia or the people moving there. Probably not as bad as eastern Europe EU states but similar idea. Things are a bit fooked lately.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I can't wrap my head around the idea that people making more than 50K in any country (assuming the currency is the dollar) are barely subsisting. The people in my province who are on the disability benefit I'm on get $20,200/year. We're $200 over what Justin Trudeau decided would be a fair cutoff to get a rent relief payment of $500. Our prime minister is a clueless idiot. People paying more than 30% of their monthly income on rent are deemed to be paying too much and need relief. People in my situation... my rent is 75% of my monthly income. If I were to have a roommate, my benefit would be slashed. Therefore, I cannot have a roommate. Since I need a place that's accessible (ie. elevator) that allows cats, plus has an understanding manager and leasing agent who have found ways over the years not to raise my rent... places like this don't grow on trees. So moving is not an option.

This yearly amount amount, when divided by 12, is far less than the $2000/month the government handed out to people in CERB payments (relief for people unable to work due to covid restrictions closing their workplace). The disabled community is asking why able-bodied people can't survive on less than $2000/month, yet the disabled people are expected to do so - especially when many of our social agencies and supports either got closed or were put on restrictions and we were unable to receive them in a timely way or at all.


Now for the issue of wealthier countries headhunting professionals from neighboring poorer countries, causing shortages of medical professionals in the poorer country... welcome to the situation Canada's been in for DECADES. There are people without doctors, ERs closing due to lack of staff, and yesterday there was a news article about people in northern Ontario who either had to move to one specific place for dialysis, or travel hundreds of miles 3 times/week - because it's a service not offered in their home town/city. There aren't enough medical professionals. Either they don't want to live in that region, there's not enough $$$$$$$$ to entice them there, or they've been headhunted to go elsewhere, either to the big cities or to the U.S.

 

[Gorbles]

It being particularly bad in Canada unfortunately doesn't mean it isn't also bad elsewhere.

And generally, it's bad in a lot of places right now.

 

[really]

NZD 50K is approximately USD 32K.

It's common here too, skilled workers being tempted to move to Australia, USA, Canada for money/sunshine/housing l or whatever.

The other side of it is we poach workers from other countries.

How to counteract it?
Make life at home better or more attractive. Better, more affordable housing. Better delivered services etc.

 

[Nick723]

To a Brit, New Zealand seems a great place to live! Way better than Aus, it’s too hot there and everyone is a bit confident and outgoing What jobs have you got going?

Only snag is, it’s a bit far away? Can you put the engines on and sail at least one of the islands round this way?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

It being particularly bad in Canada unfortunately doesn't mean it isn't also bad elsewhere.

And generally, it's bad in a lot of places right now.

Did I say it's not bad elsewhere?

My example shows that yes, I do understand the OP's position. My country has been in that position for a very long time.

The other side of it is we poach workers from other countries.

How to counteract it?
Make life at home better or more attractive. Better, more affordable housing. Better delivered services etc.

Yeah... poaching people from other countries. Some of them here are called "temporary foreign workers" (TFW) and it's a controversial thing. On the one hand, it's a great way to entice foreign workers who might eventually seek to become citizens. One of my home care workers was doing that a few years ago - she was studying for her citizenship exam and said there were a few things she wasn't clear about. I said she could ask me, and if I could explain it, I would. So we had a conversation about prime ministers and how they get to be prime ministers.

On the flip side, many TFWs' wages are subsidized by the government. The employer gets to pay less, and while it's illegal to fire Canadian citizens to hire TFWs, it happens all the time - usually in the food/entertainment industries, or tourism sector. The fact is that there are tourist places desperate for workers, but Canadians can't afford to work for what's being offered - and if it's in a national park like Banff/Jasper, there's often nowhere for them to live. Commuting to Banff from Calgary every day means they're not really making much to justify that expense. Hence, TFWs who don't have mortgages, student loans, and the myriad expenses that Canadians have.

Most of my home care workers are either TFWs now (mostly from the Philippines, though there's one from Russia) or they were and decided to pursue citizenship. It's not that they give poor service - most are very good at their jobs. It's working conditions - many end up quitting when they find better-paying jobs that don't require the insanity of being assigned to someone in the north end, then have to zip across town to the south end, then out to the east end... and the schedulers seem to think that they're always going to have green lights, light traffic, and no road hazards. I've told my own workers not to stress over being a couple of minutes late - I'd rather they be a couple of minutes late than have an accident because they're afraid I'd be angry with them for being late.


And then there's the issue of people who want to emigrate to Canada and tick all the right professional and educational boxes. They come here and discover that oops, their academic credentials and professional experience aren't good enough, they have to pay $$$$ to take tests or extra courses for recertification, and in the meantime they might end up driving a taxi or delivering pizzas to make the rent and put food on the table. Some have been very vocal lately about how disappointed and angry they were, and have left to either go back to their original country or take jobs in other countries. So this is one reason why we have a shortage of doctors and nurses. They're driving taxis, delivering pizzas, or flipping burgers because their credentials aren't recognized.

 

[Gorbles]

Did I say it's not bad elsewhere?

I didn't say you said that. You said you can't wrap your head around a particular scenario. I was trying to point out that that difference (to disabled people in Canada) to try and help you wrap your head around it. That's all.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Uh-huh. Even with exchange rates, I still can't. There was a guy in the news comment section of CBC.ca a couple of days ago, whining that he made some 6-figure amount last year and it was "barely enough". I pointed out that what he made and lived off for one year would support me for NINE years, or nine people like me for a year.

And I should point out that disability benefits are a provincial matter here. Some provinces are more than others, but then the cost of living is higher as well. This is something that whooshes over the heads of our premier and cabinet.

 

[Zardnaar]

I can't wrap my head around the idea that people making more than 50K in any country (assuming the currency is the dollar) are barely subsisting. The people in my province who are on the disability benefit I'm on get $20,200/year. We're $200 over what Justin Trudeau decided would be a fair cutoff to get a rent relief payment of $500. Our prime minister is a clueless idiot. People paying more than 30% of their monthly income on rent are deemed to be paying too much and need relief. People in my situation... my rent is 75% of my monthly income. If I were to have a roommate, my benefit would be slashed. Therefore, I cannot have a roommate. Since I need a place that's accessible (ie. elevator) that allows cats, plus has an understanding manager and leasing agent who have found ways over the years not to raise my rent... places like this don't grow on trees. So moving is not an option.

This yearly amount amount, when divided by 12, is far less than the $2000/month the government handed out to people in CERB payments (relief for people unable to work due to covid restrictions closing their workplace). The disabled community is asking why able-bodied people can't survive on less than $2000/month, yet the disabled people are expected to do so - especially when many of our social agencies and supports either got closed or were put on restrictions and we were unable to receive them in a timely way or at all.


Now for the issue of wealthier countries headhunting professionals from neighboring poorer countries, causing shortages of medical professionals in the poorer country... welcome to the situation Canada's been in for DECADES. There are people without doctors, ERs closing due to lack of staff, and yesterday there was a news article about people in northern Ontario who either had to move to one specific place for dialysis, or travel hundreds of miles 3 times/week - because it's a service not offered in their home town/city. There aren't enough medical professionals. Either they don't want to live in that region, there's not enough $$$$$$$$ to entice them there, or they've been headhunted to go elsewhere, either to the big cities or to the U.S.

Here the poor can get subsidies and cheap fixed rent. The working poor/middle class get basically nothing. Unless they have kids.

So in hot areas you're paying 75% of your take hone pay on rent but a beneficiary can get emergency housing. Assuming you can actually find somewhere to live. Add in costs of daycare and yeah.

If you lived here you wouldn't have your apartment, might have to move every year, getting a place that allows cats is very difficult (few days ago Auckland had 500+ rentals 20 allowed pets) and your apartment rent would be at market rates.

You wouldn't get $20k a year pensioners get 25k nzd welfare note sure but less than thst maybe 15k start rate. Cheap room would be 150/week double that in places like Auckland. That's assuming you share its almost double that if you want to live alone.

Having a solo apartment here while on state support would be considered absurd unless you're retired. You might have to share a room even.

No carers either you're on your own probably. There is help available good luck getting it though it's a crapshoot.

 

[Gorbles]

Uh-huh. Even with exchange rates, I still can't. There was a guy in the news comment section of CBC.ca a couple of days ago, whining that he made some 6-figure amount last year and it was "barely enough". I pointed out that what he made and lived off for one year would support me for NINE years, or nine people like me for a year.

And I should point out that disability benefits are a provincial matter here. Some provinces are more than others, but then the cost of living is higher as well. This is something that whooshes over the heads of our premier and cabinet.

I don't really know what to say. 50k in another country isn't some dude in Canada making a minimum of 100k CAD. They're completely different scenarios.

Just like how 50k here in the UK isn't scraping by in the slightest, but still doesn't make you rich when you have a family to support.

EDIT - and to be clear, there are many, many families on way less than 50k. The average pay (which varies per sector) is still under 30k here I think. The cost of living crisis is likely killing people here.

Short version: someone on 50k of a weaker currency could most definitely be struggling given the context. Our countries all have different price indexes even if a lot of the economic problems are turning out similarly.

 

[Zardnaar]

To a Brit, New Zealand seems a great place to live! Way better than Aus, it’s too hot there and everyone is a bit confident and outgoing What jobs have you got going?

Only snag is, it’s a bit far away? Can you put the engines on and sail at least one of the islands round this way?

Critical skill jobs are mostly Healthcare related. It's relatively easy to emigrate here but then discover wages vs cost of living.

And you have to rent for two years even if you cash up eg sell house in UK. In those two years rentband house prices might go up 40%.

Well they're falling now rentbnot so much.

Otherwise it's hard. Student visa backdoor or have kiwi partner or child apply for relevant visa.

I love in the cold part of the country. It's 4 degrees warmer on average than London.

 

[Nick723]

Uh-huh. Even with exchange rates, I still can't. There was a guy in the news comment section of CBC.ca a couple of days ago, whining that he made some 6-figure amount last year and it was "barely enough". I pointed out that what he made and lived off for one year would support me for NINE years, or nine people like me for a year.

And I should point out that disability benefits are a provincial matter here. Some provinces are more than others, but then the cost of living is higher as well. This is something that whooshes over the heads of our premier and cabinet.

Perhaps it’s due to dependents? Here in the UK childcare can cost 20k/child/year net of tax, which puts a sizeable dent in even a very healthy salary. Similarly, funding care for parents etc can get expensive quickly.

But yes, normally these people are simply bad at budgeting or don’t realise how much discretionary spend they truly have.

 

[Zardnaar]

Perhaps it’s due to dependents? Here in the UK childcare can cost 20k/child/year net of tax, which puts a sizeable dent in even a very healthy salary. Similarly, funding care for parents etc can get expensive quickly.

But yes, normally these people are simply bad at budgeting or don’t realise how much discretionary spend they truly have.

I've seen people complain about hard times. Sonet8med its because they actually gave to budget or cant dine at Cafe daily or live somewhere nicer or fly to Australia for a weekend shopping trip as much as they like.

They don't realize goingvto Cafe is a treat for sone people, living somewhere bad is hard or flying anywhere may as well be the moon.

 

[Senethro]

I hear some of them even have colour television.

 

[EnglishEdward]

To a Brit, New Zealand seems a great place to live! Way better than Aus, it’s too hot there and everyone is a bit confident and outgoing What jobs have you got going?

Only snag is, it’s a bit far away? Can you put the engines on and sail at least one of the islands round this way?

Take the short cut.

The Navigator: A Medieval Odyssey - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Arwon]

people making more than 50K in any country (assuming the currency is the dollar) are barely subsisting.

50k NZD is 42k CAD at the moment, just for the comparison

 

[Arwon]

Auckland housing unaffordability has been about the same as Sydney and Melbourne but one good thing that's happened recently is they've massively increased the density of their zoning to make the entire city at least medium density, and it's brought sale prices down and stopped rents growing.

Hopefully one day we can follow suit here, Canberra is just about as expensive as Sydney at the moment, the median house costs over 1 million dollars. Need to build a lot more apartments if we're going to address the affordability crisis, and that requires upzoning.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

50k NZD is 42k CAD at the moment, just for the comparison

That's still more than twice what I'm getting.

 

[Zardnaar]

That's still more than twice what I'm getting.

How much is your rent? It's not how much you get but what's left.

 

[Zardnaar]

Auckland housing unaffordability has been about the same as Sydney and Melbourne but one good thing that's happened recently is they've massively increased the density of their zoning to make the entire city at least medium density, and it's brought sale prices down and stopped rents growing.

Hopefully one day we can follow suit here, Canberra is just about as expensive as Sydney at the moment, the median house costs over 1 million dollars. Need to build a lot more apartments if we're going to address the affordability crisis, and that requires upzoning.

Australia pays a lot more outside the bot zones though so you xan still go to Aussie, get a very high wage and buy a house easier than here.

Not blaming Australia as such you have various advantages we can't Mach eg minerals.