Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Valkrionn, Jul 4, 2009.
Actually, that's pretty much correct.
sweet, what do i win?
How about this new chart?
Keep in mind, these yields aren't finalized. Already changed a bit since I made it, actually.
How can I disable a Unit from placed as Mana Guardians at Mapsetup?
uncheck the "mana guardians" option
No I wont do that, because I whant to have the guardians. But there is one Endgame unit that I added via a Mod Mod that soulded placed as Guardian.
if i am playing scions, and a friend is on my team, what happens if i spread haunted lands to his territory? does he just gain the cool 2 coin per plot, or does something bad happen, since he is not scion?
I have problems with the combination of the mills being late game improvements and towns. Towns, by taking forever to develop, are inherently late game improvements as well... and there isn't really room for that many such improvements.
Go the dwarven mine/pirate bay route for towns (I would suggest this in some fashion)? Add GPPs to towns? Let towns develop specialties based on buildings in the city (so a mage guild might let a town become a university town, which in turn spawns a building in the city that adds +2xp to arcane)?
Ditto with bells on
But this is RiFE! Animals are supposed to be stronger than anything else! Go back to your sissy regular games of civilization and Fall From Heaven, where men with fire and metal weapons drove animals to near extinction! [/sarcasm]
While I do agree that towns are somewhat unappealing with this scheme (since they have no resources and it takes so long to get them that you're likely much better off building one of the resource improvements), I'd think that this idea, however interesting, might just end up being messy.
Was it really such a bad idea to add hammers to the cottage line?
So you want to change which Guardian spawns? It's in python; Open up CvEventManager.py, search for '# WILD MANA'. That will bring you to the correct location. Just scroll down a bit to where you see the code checking the type of bonus, and placing a unit.
For one thing, lots of unhealth. More seriously though, any living unit to end a turn in haunted lands suffers some bad effects.
Towns also end up being 5 commerce, and thus have the same total yield as any of the mills. My view, towns would be the one improvement that I would not replace with Mills. And it was either have Mills moved to late game, or get rid of them completely as they added clutter.
I assume you mean require a distance between them? Could work, but would be a large nerf; Not sure I'd want to do that.
As for the other ideas, it would be interesting but cumbersome without some DLL work. Ideally, we'd make ImprovementClasses, allowing Unique Improvements replacing others. So Amurites could have a unique Town, and so on.
No, not at all. Honestly, I liked it too. The main thing is, you need commerce for both gold and research; It is a yield you need quite a bit of. Relying on Plantations for commerce didn't work because it wouldn't get you to the same amount in the end.
Hopefully that makes sense.
He's not asking for towns to be nerfed. He wants them to sort of act like dwarvern fortresses, in the sense that they require distance between them but they become more powerful.
I think this idea makes a lot of sense. I first thought that perhaps it shouldn't be random what the town evolves into. For example: if you want it to be a university town, you have to have a mage or better stand in the town and active the ability "University Town" or something.
But then I started to think about it, and this kind of idea would promote min-maxing. Build as many university towns as you can around one city, and build all you mages there. The randomness will help make each town feel more unique.
There are lots of potential specialty towns that could exist.
I have an idea about how this could work. I don't know how easy this would be to program, so maybe this is ridicules. There are a list of requirements for each specialty town to happen. However, only one of the requirements has to be met for the town to upgrade to that specialty town type. Having more then one requirement will make it more likely that that specialty town will be the one the town evolves into.
Each town could have say, a 5% chance of upgrading into a specialty town provided at least one requirement for each town is met. Not all requirements need to be equal. Having one requirement for one type of specialty town might count as much as two requirements for another type of town depending on exactly how hard the requirements are to meet ect. Balance is important of course, so each town could function like dwarvern fortress in the way that they need space between them.
Some sample town with the requirements follow.
And yes I know, I have horribly messed up the spelling of the different civilization names.
+1 production to all surrounding mines
Are Khazad or Lurchurp
Have blasting powder
Have 1 mine next to town
Have 2 mines next to town
Have 8 mines next to town
+1 food to all surrounding farms
Have 1 farm next to town
Have 2 farms next to town
Have 8 farms next to town
+20% research bonus in nearest city
(is there some sort of late game educational tech? I'd rather avoid an early game one since it would drastically take away from the Dural uniqueness)
+2 gold (from sale of potions and other wizardy things)
some sort of exp bonus for arcane units, either on creation, or a small amount per turn until they hit the cap
Have pass through the aether
Have 1 arcane unit standing in the town
Have 2 arcane units standing in the town
Have (the cap) arcane units standing in the town
There could be lots of different town upgrades like these. As far as the requirements not all being equal, I think the civ based requirements should count for much more then any of the other. It helps create more flavor for different civs. For the wizard community, I like the idea of arcane units in the town helping. Even for societies that aren't big on sharing magical knowledge, I think makes sense. If my lore is wrong here, correct me. Wizards, mages, ect, still have families, and the wizard community could represent that has a higher then usual amount of wizard offspring who are more magical then normal. The percentage might still be very small, but it is enough the define the town as being a wizard town.
For the mining and farming towns, if +1 food or production is overpowered, can we do fractions? Like, +.5 food or production to the surrounding farms or mines? I would rather not just make the bonus a large bonus just for the town, I like the idea of a farming center that all the farms are around. Isn't that one of the points for a medieval type town? It is a center for the surrounding peasants to come and trade at.
Does anyone like these ideas? Specifically, do you, Valkrionn, like these ideas? You are really the person I am trying to convince the most, for obvious reasons.
Edit: Another idea. Would it be possible to make it when a town was built, it got a name in the form of a tag like the ones used on the unique features? This would just be cosmetic, but combined with the increased rareness of towns, and more unique effects, would make each town truly different. It would make towns the player really wants to hold onto.
In addition, if this system were used, the base gold from towns should probably be increased. These extra effects are very nice, but they don't make gold (usually).
Perhaps instead of +1/+2/+3/+4 we could add maybe 2 extra gold to each level. Or anything else which would increase total gold to make up for less gold making towns.
I doubt the AI would be able to use this effectively.
First off, since the upgrade would come automatically if you meet the requirements, the odds of the computer using the specialty towns to some extant is very good. Even if it is totally not on purpose, the AI will stumble into having specialty towns.
Secondly, will they be able to use them as well as a human player can? Of course not. But what aspect of the game is the computer as good as the human player? Look at the massive bonuses the AI already get at the higher difficulty levels. Even with all these bonuses, good players can trump the AI all the time. Humans are smarter then the computer, and likely will be for a very long time to come. This is not the straw which breaks the camel's back.
I have another comment on the ability of the AI to use the specialty town mechanic. Look at the magic system. If you think the computer can't use it, then it would help the player more then the AI infinitely more then this system would help the human more then the AI. If you think the AI can use the magic system, the magic system is significantly more complex then this system, and the computer could be taught to use this as well.
Valk, I really like the idea of improvement classes. Personally I think it would come in most handy for forts. I already have two makeshift Unique Improvements for forts in my Clan fort commander and Luchuirp Sculptor modules. I can see all sorts of possibilities here.
Edit: In fact, unique improvements for forts could in some cases do away with fort commanders altogether. I know this might be a pain in the ass to change after all the work to add them, but a unique improvement could pass special abilities to any unit in the fort, it could also carry other unique abilities that would not require a Fort Commander.
I like smithroadtrip's idea for specialty towns, I'd just prefer to go about it a little differently. I don't want to prevent towns from being adjacent (very bad for the Bannor-and the specialty towns would have to all spawn demagogues under Crusade, or the Bannor would need their own town upgrade). I'd have towns upgrade as they would towards enclaves, but at the moment of upgrade (so the time to upgrade would be non-random) the form is selected from a weighted list, in a manner similar to events as follows:
Enclave I'd give another commerce, actually (always, if Kuriotates)
Mining Town +1 (weight 1 per adjacent mine and, if that is nonzero, 1 per building that improves production output)
Farming Town +1 and carries fresh water (weight 1 per adjacent farm plus 1 for having a granary or stockhouse (or the Calabim UB, not that they've any business building cottages))
Party Town +1 (weight 1 if adjacent to unique feature that grants )
Outpost Town <gets a little wall> +25% Tile Defense (weight 1 per defensive building, 1 per undeveloped adjacent tile and 1 per level of forts adjacent)
Filler Town +1 (high weight if other specialty towns exist within some radius-though one could probably pillage repeatedly to get around this)
Trade Town +1 (weight on other cottage/town/etc adjacent, increasing with development, 1 per any improvement that's not already considered, maybe some weight with the number or size of the owning city'e trade routes)
University Town +1 and +1xp to adepts trained in owning city (weight 1 per building that provides training for arcane units or increases output)
Military Town +1xp to melee/archer/mounted/recon units built in owning city (weight 1 per building that provides training for any of those units)
I think I would make towns that instead give extra GPP dependant on the presence of correlating GP settled in the owning city (and probably just +1 GPP each).
Super Duper Town <roll again and double this second result, if super duper results twice, something really nifty, like providing a random mana, happens> (weight 1 if the total other weights exceed 10 and if no other super duper town is within some specified radius).
Just brainstorming here.
Thanks, so its curently not Posible to do it Modular.
Why I asked is because I whanted to use the Module Reformed Liches from FF
but sadly the Phylactery Guards are placed as Mana Guards but the realy problem is that the Guard summons the Lich (with Hold Promo) also and the lich summons up to 3 Skelletons and this together is to much.
As I mentioned in my last post, I think this could get incredibly messy, especially if it's random (and I'm not even sure you can have an improvement be able to upgrade to more than one improvement type), but I must say that I do like this idea of towns improving the output of improvements on nearby tiles. It would give a reason to both use the cottage line as well as mix it up with other improvements.
How about something that you have a bit more control over, though? As an example: you could tie it to a spell/ability (requiring a town in the tile, and that there's a minimum of 1 tile between the tile and any other 'upgraded' town), allowing you to make a decision to actually upgrade the town, and letting you choose what specialty the town will have.
Farming Town - +1 to adjacent farms; +1 (possibly +2) to adjacent plantations; carries fresh water
Mining Town - +1 to adjacent mines and quarries
Garrison Town - +25% defence to tile; culture control over it's own tile*; and the ability to quickly recruit weak, 'militia'-type units*
University Town - +1 in the city, and +1 to adjacent workshops
*So that you won't lose the tile, even if a neighbour's border is pressing against it.
**For quick defence; I might be stepping on Bannor toes again, though, so ignore this one if you want
XP and Culture seem (to me, anyway) like they wouldn't really fit that well; XP feels like it could end up a bit too powerful, while I think culture wouldn't really be all that useful.
How does that sound?
It might be possible to do something with a spell that requires the Held promotion that transforms the Phylactery Guard after they are placed. I'll see what I can do.
Keeping this in mind, if you change the Mana Guardians to using a leach instead of the Held promotion, please add a new promotion, Mana Guardian. It doesn't have to do anything, just mark the unit as being one.
Separate names with a comma.