RifE 1.20 Ideas, Requests, and Feedback

Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Valkrionn, Jul 4, 2009.

  1. hyface

    hyface Chieftain

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    The barbs in this game are ridiculous.

    One game ended in <100 turns due to a very angry lvl6 18 str griffon. :mad: Funnily enough ~5 civs died before I did.. I suspect I wasn't the first to be crushed by it in that game. :lol:
     
  2. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    Have read about jotnar fort->city conversion - great! Lead me to the fork of ideas to be incorporated for all nations:
    First: when the castle is about to upgrade into a citadel you get a case pop-up to choose whether it to become that or a new settlement with walls;
    Second:to add a city pop limit for building walls about 8, and to add a new building line of fort->castle->citadel giving all the bonuses of improvements in addition to those of the walls and palisade (which i somewhere within Orbis proposed to rename/remodel into a 'stake perimeter' to flavourify its coexistence with walls) and auto-appearing within the settlement when you build new city on top of the existing fort/castle/citadel (as to represent quite realistic tendency of cities forming around the safety of castles)- to negate possible balance/AI tweaks issues and make stake claiming with forts more viable.

    And yet another idea about city siege: it is almost impossible within classic Sid's ruleset (my opinion on which you probably already know:)) to emulate land blockade, because it would require to place about 20 units on each workable square and reinforce stacks in 8 adjacent squares to protect them from sallies. So the usual situation with city siege is that the mighty Stack of Doom barely inadequate for direct assault looms over and on adjacent unoccupied squares farmers and miners unperturbed continue their work. A Sid-specific code of honour?:D Away with demagogics, approximate formula is that:
    For each 2 hostile units within city work radius minus the number of city garrison (units with movespeed more than 1 counting as two) a random plot (starting with those closest to hostile stack(s)) is rendered unworkable which should represent besieging forces raiding the countryside and encircling settlement with their camps and fortifications. Then that 'food storage' stuff shall at last find its use in addition to being a growth meter. Which imo is quite stupid: in MoM growth is a separate race-based value, with food serving as a cap for total pop and (not quite certain)modifier.
     
  3. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    And if all of you modders haven't already read this then i aggressively suggest for all of you to do this ASAP, for the good of all.
     
  4. Milaga

    Milaga Prince

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    There are problems with the growth of the animals in the game. This has been acknowledged (and will be corrected in the next version) by the RiFE team.

    This problem bothered me too. As much as I can tell from Valkrionn's numerous cryptic posts, the next release of RiFE seems to be quite ambitious, so these simple problems might not be addressed for a while. I did a few passes on the animals and I came up with a mini-mod that lowers the strengths and first strikes of animal units. While I highly recommend playing with this mini-mod, this doesn't completely neuter the animals so if they really are upsetting you just turn off animals altogether.

    Weaker Minotaurs and Cyklops are part of the unicorn- uh, I mean, flavor-mod.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=357891
     
  5. Milaga

    Milaga Prince

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    As a skeptic, I clicked the link and was presented with a list of PDF files regarding Might and Magic.

    Why is it so important that modders read this? Your message is not very clear.

    I did not bother to click through to these PDFs, which I may have in fact read before, but I can't be bothered to read again without context.
     
  6. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Yeah, I'm in the middle of implementing a new barb system. Just have to find time in between papers to finish it. Then a few smaller projects, and then we should be able to release 1.3. ;)

    To be blunt: No. The mechanic is used by the Jotnar, the Clan (Kindof; Their forts create Barb cities, currently forced next version optional), the Orcish Barbs (Same method as Clan, guaranteed to happen eventually next version; More barb cities), and eventually the Kuriotates. All 4 (3, really) use it in different ways, so they coexist well. IMO expanding it would remove the flavor they each have for it.

    Again, no. :p

    Honestly, I even agree with your opinion on SoD; Main reason I'm excited for Civ5 is their removal, and the strategic effect of the one unit per tile rule. However, it is a fact that Civ4 is designed for SoD combat, and I am not willing to commit myself to the massive amount of time and effort required to change that.

    Your proposed mechanic, IMO at least, is entirely arbitrary and gamey. Not something I would want to put in.

    Also: I've honestly not played MoM, and frankly do not care how they did things. This is not MoM, it is not based on MoM, and while both are fantasy games, the similarities should end there. I have no interest in cloning work from another game.

    Read my last comment on your other post. ;)
     
  7. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Hey hey, Flavor Patch was planned before the Princess Rule project was started. :p

    Also, though I have mentioned it I never really announced it... The team has decided to break the next version into multiple patches, to get the content out faster. 1.3 is basically just waiting on the barb system; Unfortunately, I have several papers to write at the moment so haven't had time to finish it. It's around halfway done currently; Most DLL work is in, but the xml is unstarted.

    Because everyone has to read info from the absolutely authoritative in every way Master of Magic. :p
     
  8. Darken24

    Darken24 Chieftain

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    is it possible to give the mechanos adeptus the ability to dispel mana nodes similar to the metamagic 2 mostly because if you play with the extra mana nodes option or the mana node conversion option they could be really screwed especially if played by an ai
     
  9. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Already have it; Research Divination (or possibly Alteration, can't remember which).

    All mana techs give Adeptus/Techpriests a new ability; To see which, look up the Divine promotion, any which require the Ordo Machinarum religion are the ones in question.
     
  10. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    I quite like the barbs as they are. They are pretty challenging. I had a long running battle with blah blah blah the longsighted. That little bugger pillaged everything in sight and generally harassed me for 50 turns I think. ;)

    The game runs well after I installed the 1.22 patch. The game crashed repeatedly before that.

    Anyway, super job. I sure hope we'll see a ciV version when all is said and done. That's a ways down the road though.
     
  11. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    I have noted that there are forts (growing into castles and citadels) placed on game start at some chokepoint locations. While existence of the watch towers can be flavourified as "natural observation points used by ragged surviving hunters" these massive uninhabited constructions building themselves out of thin air are certainly require total removal or at least some far-fetched explanation.

    Also could you please return an option to disable building improvements without techs? Hate to see AI building forts and quarries while they still stuck at researching agriculture and crafting.
     
  12. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Erebus is NOT emerging from a stone age. It is emerging from a Dark Age (Technically, Ice Age, but just as in Europe, you have a powerful empire that crashes, leaving barbarism and ruins).

    Basically, there is an entirely feasible explanation for ruins (which these citadels represent); Patria.

    It's also placed by the Flavor Start option; If you dislike the mechanic, don't use the option. ;)

    As for barring improvements without techs... No. It's a mechanic that I think fits Erebus (Again, recovering from dark age, not discovering for the first time), and one that I like. It's also a mechanic that we are balancing for, meaning the ability to turn it off would throw that work completely out of whack.

    You can prevent your own workers from building forts; It's a player option, as with Leave Old Improvements.
     
  13. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    City ruins existence in game appears to me as a quite non-realistic (thankfully these are optional) because of this, see "moraine".

    Also it would be good to prevent lion and the like lairs from appearing on ice with "End of Winter" turned on (which imo should be set as a default flavourwise)
     
  14. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    Whoa whoa whoa! My spirit flares with a thirst for dispute; i think its worth a whole thread in Fall from Heaven Lore, which i shall soon create!

    I ask only for a switch on/off, as it is now in Wildmana (if i haven't confused it with something else:))
     
  15. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    They are not representative of city ruins. They are ruined forts, placed in mountain passes and difficult terrain. Something that could feasibly survive an Ice Age; Trust me, well aware of what a moraine is and does.

    Lion lairs are quite feasible for ice. Lions lead to Sabertooths, which were originally added as a specifically arctic animal.

    Honestly, I've done absolutely nothing in regards to the End of Winter option; I dislike it, as it removes any possibility for planning your city placement. Thematically, the End of Winter should already have occured when the game begins. The option is along the same lines of the Ice Age Earth map; An interesting "What if civilization got a head start?" and nothing more.
     
  16. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    I'm not sure there can be any dispute on that; Everything in the Lore states that the Age of Magic was a period governed by a world-encompassing Empire, Patria. It had begun to splinter into fractious states when Bhall fell, allowing Mulcarn to enter Erebus and initiate the Age of Ice, effectively halting the civil war. It is from this age that the modern Erebus is emerging.

    In terms of environment, obviously this is far worse than our own Dark Age in Europe; In terms of knowledge, though, I believe the two would be quite similar. Some civilizations undoubtedly collapsed further (Doviello, Archos), but others (Bannor, Amurites, Balseraph (lead by Perpentach, one of the main governors of Patria), Mazatl, etc) much of the old knowledge was preserved, unlike in our own history. The environment just became too hard for the knowledge to be utilized; It was not lost.

    And again, we are balancing with this mechanic in mind. Any option which allows it to be turned off destroys said balance.

    I can safely say that the mechanic currently in place will change, but there will be no option blocking improvements from being built without techs.

    Edit: To explain my view further... Basically, anything which the team decides to integrate as a standard mechanic will be standard. It becomes something we balance for, and integrate fully into the mod; A very good example would be ranged combat. I will never add an option disabling this (Aside from a possible MP option; That's rather different though, and needed to prevent OOS), as Archery units are explicitly balanced with this mechanic in mind. Disabling it immediately nerfs these units into oblivion, which is not a good thing.

    I frankly do not care if other mods have made certain mechanics optional or not; Those which are base mechanics in RifE will never be made optional. I have absolutely no interesting in attempting to maintain balance both with and without the mechanic, and will not add choices which explicitly destroy balance. :goodjob:
     
  17. orinsul

    orinsul Warlord

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    The Dark Ages werent a time of forgotten knowledge or decline, they were a statism after a decline, Rome fell and in then everyone was too busy for anything else to done, technology wasnt forgotten, there was just no improvement on it. In alot of ways there were advancements, but not in culture or theoretical science as with the invasions from without and the heresies from within and the memory of the abject instability of the fall still strong in the minds and hearts of men there was no time for anything but the fight and so everything else suffered. But it wasnt lost, it just didnt get any better. But thats a historical quibble and still drastically simplistic.


    Alright so the on top thing. Something as an Idea ive been thinking on for the mod that maybe you might like the sound of.

    A Ritual-Chain either for the Clan of Embers or for anyone with a new religion, Bhallite, Rememberance of Bhall, Bhall Cult or something along those lines, which are an attempt to rivive the goddess inspired by the other resurrection and the illians ascention. seeing those success those who remember the flames seek to do the same. First Ritual maybe giving additional fire mana, the Second converting the nodes in your cultural borders to fire ones and giving an applicable promotion to all units.
    And the Thrid and Final, in all its discription appearing as though it will resurrect the goddess, instead spawns barbarian fireballs or one-turn elements at every node, flames in every tile with any percent of the culture of the civ that does the rital and mass unhappiness, health and productivity in all cities for six turns or so. An attempt to do something which cant be done with dire consequences.

    Additionally with Patria being a vast Magical dictatorship rather than an organised military empire surely comparisons with Rome cannot be made, the remanents of Patrian law survivng into the age of rebirth wouldnt resemble in the least those remanents that survived of roman law. They would be about the rights of the Magicians than the public individual, not the Authority of the state but the authority of the individual Wizards. And the chaos and corruption that Kylron turned himself against. But a great many of the after the fact additions paint them all too much as Rome. Whereas the History of Fall from Heaven from the base game gives the impression of a wild society held together by vastly powerful magicians not an organised military, but a disorganised tyrrany of many. And so surely the likes of the scions are incompatible with Patria for being too compatible with Rome. but thats another quibble, the point of this post was the middle one.
     
  18. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    Dwarven mine from its description is but a minor improvement from ordinary mine, but in game it costs about six times more to build, and replaces ordinary mine, causing almost the same need in worker hordes as elven cottages in ancient forests with their 100+ turns to build.

    "Mine becomes dwarven mine in 25 turns for dwarven and/or Arete civs"
     
  19. sylvain5477

    sylvain5477 Cerebrus father

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    Dwarven mine upgrade several times and finally produces a lot of both commerce and hammers.

    EDIT : and provides a free fort commander !
     
  20. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    That was pretty much my point. All I meant by the 'unlike our own history' is I feel (at least for some of the civs) that the common man would have been educated as well. If knowledge/technology is only used by an elite few, it might as well be lost for all the good it does the society as a whole. ;)

    Both of our views here though are quite simplistic. I could easily go into far more detail (History buff, though my interest wavers after the Renaissance and dies after WW2), but a simple metaphor was all I was going for there. :goodjob:

    Honestly, I don't really want to add anymore religions. We're planning to remove one, and add one more; That'll be it. And the one we're adding is already completely designed, lore written by Killer Clowns, and focused on one of the new civs. ;)

    Hmm... I'm not sure of that. Remember, Kylorin did not create Patria while a mage. He became a mage after he had built his empire, using a well organized military (Believe Hippus were a part of that, possibly Bannor as well though at the time they were not nearly as disciplined). Honestly, while the remnants would likely be somewhat different, the basic story is pretty much compatible.

    Dwarven Mine becomes a Dwarven Settlement. If it was just the one improvement, sure. As it is, hell no. It is limited for a very good reason.

    And no, it does not replace the ordinary mine. Both are still quite buildable. The Dwarven Mine is simply better, and cannot be built within a certain range of other Dwarven Mines.
     

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