RifE 1.20 Ideas, Requests, and Feedback

[Valkrionn]

From my understanding, the Jotnar are supposed to be a dwindling, even dying, race of giants living among/enslaving goblins. I love the new 3-tile mechanic you've added, as it makes more sense in the lore aspect of the civilization, but I must ask- Why are most of their units shown in groups of 3-5? It doesn't make very much sense to me, as to how a dying race would amass an army with more soldiers per squad than any human civilization. I would like to see more models like the Jotnar Berserker- one intimidating giant. It gives off the feel that your unit is powerful, but you must use them wisely.. Basically it reinforces the main point of the Jotnar lore and play style.

I like the models very much, but their are just too many, in my opinion.

That was to make the Packmaster mechanic work (can't ADD models, just change them; So you need enough models for the animals). I may remove it; if so, models will go back down.

 

[sylvain5477]

That was to make the Packmaster mechanic work (can't ADD models, just change them; So you need enough models for the animals). I may remove it; if so, models will go back down.

You could have a big default number of model and decrease the number of model with promotion for unit which should have less (check the screenshot of Tears to see the result, considering that each group is the same unit with only a different promotion)
I could give you my XML if you like (but I'm sure you can manage )

 

[Valkrionn]

You could have a big default number of model and decrease the number of model with promotion for unit which should have less (check the screenshot of Tears to see the result, considering that each group is the same unit with only a different promotion)
I could give you my XML if you like (but I'm sure you can manage )

Ah, true. Tag on the hero promotion which forces just one unit to show. Had forgotten about it... And I'm not the one who implemented the system in any case.

Yeah, will do that if the system is kept.

 

[Ilyes]

Hello. This is one of my first posts. Let me say that I appreciate your mod very much, and I would like to make some suggestions (just a few thoughts I had)

1) Don't know if it's taboo or something, but... the Lanun need some love! I really love the work you did with the Malakim, but flavour-wise I think the Lanun got a little left behind. I would suggest just a small change, the ability to ignore terrain movement cost at sea; that is, the ability to move through those annoying kelps/sargassos... I think they spawn too much, too rapidly. Another mechanic that I found interesting was Wildmana's making pirate ports spawn barbarian pirates... but I dont think it's something that can be imported in RfE?

2) Please nerf the Frozen. Don't know if it's a bug in my games, but their worldspell ends up giving that dreaded promotion to every-single-unit on the worldmap at the time of the casting. This, combined with the "pass promotion in battle" mechanics, simply ends up making Frozen own something like 198+ population cities (and a horde of Tar demons).

3) I really love the Malakim and their trade economy, but perhaps the food/money bonus is too much? I always end up with 30+ population cities (although that could be cause by the food resources spawning on floodplains farms, something that I could not be used to), and TONS of gold, even at 100% reserach. Combined with the Guild of the 9, I can rush opponents with hordes of mercenaries -thus conquering more cities, expanding the empire and gaining even more gold per turn. Consider giving the Malakim a sobstitute wonder, like the Kurios with City of a Thousand Slums, and restriting the Merchant trait to foreign routes.

4) Omnipotence victory seems a little hard to achieve for non-calabim, it requires an absurd ampunt of experience. I also think the different "master of [sphere] and [sphere]" promotions are a little weak give the effort one needs to reach them. Perhaps allowing a D&D-esque "wizard specialist" promotion could raise the XP gain rate?

5) Request: please, oh please -bring back ye olde FfH "Patriarch" unit promotion. I always though it was unique and rewarding, never understood why it was cut out.

6) We aldready have civ-based events and regligion-based, why not make civics-based events?

7) General flattery & sicophantic compliments.

 

[Valkrionn]

Hello. This is one of my first posts. Let me say that I appreciate your mod very much, and I would like to make some suggestions (just a few thoughts I had)

Glad you like it! And this entire thread was made for people to make suggestions in, so feel free.

1) Don't know if it's taboo or something, but... the Lanun need some love! I really love the work you did with the Malakim, but flavour-wise I think the Lanun got a little left behind. I would suggest just a small change, the ability to ignore terrain movement cost at sea; that is, the ability to move through those annoying kelps/sargassos... I think they spawn too much, too rapidly. Another mechanic that I found interesting was Wildmana's making pirate ports spawn barbarian pirates... but I dont think it's something that can be imported in RifE?

Making their naval units immune to terrain cost would be fitting. Makes them want to actively seek out the Kelp, rather than avoid it... I think I'll add that.

Kelp spawn needs to be toned down. Set too high currently.

A pirate faction likely won't happen. It's entirely possible to add, I just do not want to.

2) Please nerf the Frozen. Don't know if it's a bug in my games, but their worldspell ends up giving that dreaded promotion to every-single-unit on the worldmap at the time of the casting. This, combined with the "pass promotion in battle" mechanics, simply ends up making Frozen own something like 198+ population cities (and a horde of Tar demons).

Already done. The next version is far more balanced.

3) I really love the Malakim and their trade economy, but perhaps the food/money bonus is too much? I always end up with 30+ population cities (although that could be cause by the food resources spawning on floodplains farms, something that I could not be used to), and TONS of gold, even at 100% reserach. Combined with the Guild of the 9, I can rush opponents with hordes of mercenaries -thus conquering more cities, expanding the empire and gaining even more gold per turn. Consider giving the Malakim a sobstitute wonder, like the Kurios with City of a Thousand Slums, and restriting the Merchant trait to foreign routes.

Will look at it. I actually encourage merc use with them, but having the trait effect just Foreign routes would be good... Just have to add code allowing that.

4) Omnipotence victory seems a little hard to achieve for non-calabim, it requires an absurd ampunt of experience. I also think the different "master of [sphere] and [sphere]" promotions are a little weak give the effort one needs to reach them. Perhaps allowing a D&D-esque "wizard specialist" promotion could raise the XP gain rate?

There is no Omnipotence victory. Likely won't be either; I don't see it as different enough from the Tower of Mastery victory. To get all those spells, you need all the manas. Which is what the Tower victory represents.

The initial Mastery promotions are also free, so long as you meet the requirements. Not supposed to be super strong, just a nice boost.

5) Request: please, oh please -bring back ye olde FfH "Patriarch" unit promotion. I always though it was unique and rewarding, never understood why it was cut out.

What exactly did it do? Don't think it was there when I started playing.

6) We aldready have civ-based events and regligion-based, why not make civics-based events?

We have some, it's just not widely used.

7) General flattery & sicophantic compliments.

-Substitute generic meatbag social response here-

 

[Vainglory]

What exactly did it do? Don't think it was there when I started playing.

The patriarch promotion was given to the highest level priest of a religion. He had a spell (which I forgot the name of) that forced all civilizations with the same state religion to declare war on the enemies of the patriarch's civ at the cost of a sizeable amount of experience. It was a flavorful and interesting mechanic, but it sort of steps onto the powers of the councils which, I believe, is the reason that it was removed.

It was, however, exciting to spread your religion far and wide then start a massive crusade against the heatens.

 

[Valkrionn]

The patriarch promotion was given to the highest level priest of a religion. He had a spell (which I forgot the name of) that forced all civilizations with the same state religion to declare war on the enemies of the patriarch's civ at the cost of a sizeable amount of experience. It was a flavorful and interesting mechanic, but it sort of steps onto the powers of the councils which, I believe, is the reason that it was removed.

It was, however, exciting to spread your religion far and wide then start a massive crusade against the heatens.

That's what I thought, just thought it was an upgrade, not a promotion.

I'm going to make a Patriarch unit for the Order, which upgrades from a high (level 10 or 12) level High Priest. Does the same thing.

Just don't see other religions calling for crusades.

 

[Ilyes]

What exactly did it do? Don't think it was there when I started playing.

Well, I'll try my best to explain it.

Basically, each religion's highest level High Priest gets the "Patriarch" promotion for free. So you get a Patriarch for the Empyrean, one for the Order and so on (the Council of Esus doesn't get one).

Owning a Patriarch gets you the "You own the Patriarch" positive diplomacy modifier with other civilizations sharing your religion. I remember it was something substantial, like +6, or you could just rule that it maxes out the "brothers and sisters of the faith" modifier (which, if I recall correctly, improves over time).

But the patriarch's most useful ability was to declare a Holy War, making the unit lose 10 XP (thus maybe losing the Patriarch status) and forcing every other civilization sharing the its religion to declare war againts "enemies of the faith" (that is, every civilization at war with the Patriarch's). I -think- the AI weighted this when considering its opponent defenses in a potential war, and it weighted it A LOT.
----
Writing it now, I realize it had a clunky mechanic: open to abuse, possibly annoying in multyplayer games, maybe difficult to use in the hands of the AI. Still, I think it could work well with a few tweaks. Awaiting your opinion.
---
Ninja'd. Oh, well... Order is good, is good... it will make the Bannor even more warmongering.
Consider adding the Octopus Overlords to the crusading religions: "THE OVERLORDS HAVE SPOKEN! DROWN THE HEATHENS!"

 

[Valkrionn]

Well, I'll try my best to explain it.

Basically, each religion's highest level High Priest gets the "Patriarch" promotion for free. So you get a Patriarch for the Empyrean, one for the Order and so on (the Council of Esus doesn't get one).

Owning a Patriarch gets you the "You own the Patriarch" positive diplomacy modifier with other civilizations sharing your religion. I remember it was something substantial, like +6, or you could just rule that it maxes out the "brothers and sisters of the faith" modifier (which, if I recall correctly, improves over time).

But the patriarch's most useful ability was to declare a Holy War, making the unit lose 10 XP (thus maybe losing the Patriarch status) and forcing every other civilization sharing the its religion to declare war againts "enemies of the faith" (that is, every civilization at war with the Patriarch's). I -think- the AI weighted this when considering its opponent defenses in a potential war, and it weighted it A LOT.
----
Writing it now, I realize it had a clunky mechanic: open to abuse, possibly annoying in multyplayer games, maybe difficult to use in the hands of the AI. Still, I think it could work well with a few tweaks. Awaiting your opinion.
---
Ninja'd. Oh, well... Order is good, is good... it will make the Bannor even more warmongering. Consider adding the Octopus Overlords to the crusading religion: "THE OVERLORDS HAVE SPOKEN! DROWN THE HEATHENS!"

I don't think it would work for OO. Each priest pays respect to a different lord, and can change at any moment... It's not a united religion.

Those which ARE united would be Order, Empy, RoK, WH, and AV... Empy I don't see using it, same with RoK. White Hand could, as could AV, but if I'm not giving it to ALL of them, I'd give it to just the Order.

 

[Ilyes]

It's fine; suits the Order's militaristic nature. Glad I could help.

 

[Cyrusfan]

It might make sense for some of the ideas floating around about the White Hand, as Auric Ulvin would almost certainly be Patriarch most of the time (at least I think his unit class changes to divine at some point), as he'd have a big head start on his fellow priests. AV probably doesn't make sense unless you make the Hyborem unit divine (I don't know what it is currently).

I think other civs should have the option to turn down the holy war, but be forced to switch religions if they do so, and take huge diplomatic penalties with those that keep the faith (that don't go away quickly if they switch back).

 

[Elwist]

It seems to me that it would be far more interesting to have a different patriarch ability for each religion. That would mean the order would probably have the original everyone joins the fight while the others could have things that actually fit what that religion is like.

 

[Valkrionn]

This is true, and if enough ideas are generated I could do that.

• Order
  • Holy War
• Empy
  • No idea.
• RoK
  • I've got nothing.
• FoL
  • Some kind of avatar, maybe? Allow the Patriarch to 'become' the forest... Giant treeant.
• OO
  • No idea here; Should not be innately evil, or good. Just Chaotic. Should also deal with waves.
• AV
  • Something dealing with Hell terrain... Possibly have the Patriarch become a Demon Lord, very strong but limited to Hell Terrain?
• Esus
  • No idea... not even sure it should have one, but that would be crippling if all the others do.
• White Hand
  • Maybe allow it to cast a mini-stasis, affecting just those cities within X tiles?
• Airandamar
  • Move along.

 

[BiffQJ]

A small (I think) suggestion: Has there been any thought of giving Mokka some type of item? I believe the in game description says something to the effect that Mokka got some item and is now trying to create a realm for frostlings. It seems that Mokka should have something (maybe a staff that can cast a nerfed version of frozen lands?). It would also give some incentive for the Ilians to actually build Samhain...

 

[Cyrusfan]

Airandamar? Um, okay, is that term going to show up anywhere in a search (yes, obviously it's the new religion you've been hinting at for a while) or is it completely new?

And are their any Esus divine units?

RoK:Well I'm always getting an event for a Dwarven transmuter (no, I like my gold), so how about an ability to turn existing mineral resources into another mineral resource?

OO:Affect any single civ's relationship with any single other as if it had won or lost a game of Somnium (can only be applied to relationships without any Somnium effect currently).

FoL:Bonus to attack/defend all forest types comparable to all Woodsman promos (passive) copies all promos to summons (which would give high priest of leaves a super treant).

Empy:High damage effect to enemy units in specific area (use the existing nuke explosion graphic),

AV:Strength set equal to AC for one turn.

Where you choose to activate these things, I'm assuming the XP expenditure indicated for holy war (thus the patriarch promo could be lost on the following turn, otherwise the effects I've indicated are far too powerful). The passive FoL effect might have to get a parallel in some others.

 

[Valkrionn]

Airandamar? Um, okay, is that term going to show up anywhere in a search (yes, obviously it's the new religion you've been hinting at for a while) or is it completely new?

And are their any Esus divine units?

RoK:Well I'm always getting an event for a Dwarven transmuter (no, I like my gold), so how about an ability to turn existing mineral resources into another mineral resource?

OO:Affect any single civ's relationship with any single other as if it had won or lost a game of Somnium (can only be applied to relationships without any Somnium effect currently).

FoL:Bonus to attack/defend all forest types comparable to all Woodsman promos (passive) copies all promos to summons (which would give high priest of leaves a super treant).

Empy:High damage effect to enemy units in specific area (use the existing nuke explosion graphic),

AV:Strength set equal to AC for one turn.

Where you choose to activate these things, I'm assuming the XP expenditure indicated for holy war (thus the patriarch promo could be lost on the following turn, otherwise the effects I've indicated are far too powerful). The passive FoL effect might have to get a parallel in some others.

Airandamar - It's actually Quenya. Not going to say the meaning, if you can hodge it together that's fine. The meaning gives away part of the theme, however, so please keep it to yourself if you do.

I was actually not planning on it being a promotion, but a unique UPGRADE. First priest to get there gets it; There's no loosing it afterwards, unless you switch religion.

 

[Oranos]

Airandamar? Um, okay, is that term going to show up anywhere in a search (yes, obviously it's the new religion you've been hinting at for a while) or is it completely new?

And are their any Esus divine units?

RoK:Well I'm always getting an event for a Dwarven transmuter (no, I like my gold), so how about an ability to turn existing mineral resources into another mineral resource?

OO:Affect any single civ's relationship with any single other as if it had won or lost a game of Somnium (can only be applied to relationships without any Somnium effect currently).

FoL:Bonus to attack/defend all forest types comparable to all Woodsman promos (passive) copies all promos to summons (which would give high priest of leaves a super treant).

Empy:High damage effect to enemy units in specific area (use the existing nuke explosion graphic),

AV:Strength set equal to AC for one turn.

Where you choose to activate these things, I'm assuming the XP expenditure indicated for holy war (thus the patriarch promo could be lost on the following turn, otherwise the effects I've indicated are far too powerful). The passive FoL effect might have to get a parallel in some others.

No, CoE does not have any divine units. They would perhaps need a few extra unique bonuses to make up for the lack of a patriarch unit. Or maybe another unique hero that requires the CoE holy city. OO seems a little underpowered, no ideas of my own though. For the AV spell, is that just the patriarch or is it all units in the patriarch's stack?

I was actually not planning on it being a promotion, but a unique UPGRADE. First priest to get there gets it; There's no loosing it afterwards, unless you switch religion.

If it's going to be an upgrade that doesn't go away, a cooldown time for the patriarch spell would probably be in order. Don't know if that's possible, not speaking Python myself.

 

[Valkrionn]

Cooldowns are easily done; Tie the spell to a promotion on the unit, have the spell remove that promotion and add a new one which degrades to the original in X turns.

 

[Evalis]

OO is underpowered?! Are you nuts? Have you ever even used lunatics? Those guys are crazy powerful for their tech level. 7/4... that's arguably better than champions, since you'll be using archers for your defense. Honestly I'm not even sure how that religion gets away with it..

 

[Valkrionn]

OO is underpowered?! Are you nuts? Have you ever even used lunatics? Those guys are crazy powerful for their tech level. 7/4... that's arguably better than champions, since you'll be using archers for your defense. Honestly I'm not even sure how that religion gets away with it..

He meant the IDEA for OO is underpowered. Not the religion itself, the Patriarch.