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right... no more peaceful games... ever.

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by kamex, May 10, 2011.

  1. ohioastronomy

    ohioastronomy King

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    If any game mechanic gets too annoying players will simply find ways to get around it. In this case making diplomacy too difficult and random makes it simply easier to win the game by ignoring it. This is especially true with a weak military AI and few benefits for peace with neighbors.
     
  2. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    3) and 4) Big big problem, i agree. Deity is not about skills(read self money generation, hammers, population, science, etc) and good diplo knowledge, it's about exploiting a broken mechanic.

    5) Sounds like multiplayer lol

    6) I try to be wise and not lose to a human again, but i can't. Everyone can't. But i think people should learn to lose games sometimes. It's ok to lose some. Loss percentage is much higher in multi than any level that a player is comfortable with. But i understand your point.
     
  3. danieladler

    danieladler Warlord

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    Since the AI still cant manage a decent attack across oceans, the guaranteed way of not being threatened is to be on an island. I once won a cultural victory with India on deity without a single declaration of war. And even if someone had declared war there wouldnt have been any units coming over the water anyway. Easy, but inhumanly boring, way to win.
     
  4. spfun

    spfun King

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    RA spamming is a big problem for sure making Emperor & below ridiculously easy ( GDR & Stealth Bombers vs rifleman lol ) On deity though RAs are simply necessary to keep up or maintain the tech lead, without them your toast. I would love for them to replace RAs but they are so key on immortal/deity to compete.

    In a game so key on gold for RAs, its to easy to get bulk amounts of gold. Selling resources/luxuries for bulk gold is a problem imo, why not change it to gold per turn atleast? Also selling all your open borders for 50gold a piece... that really adds up. Its way to easy to maintain large amounts of RAs at all times with this selling.

    As to exploiting silly mechanics, i can only hope firaxis gets onto counters for these ASAP. I've never needed to use these to win Deity OCC but should be fixed anyway. Gold per turn instead of lump sum would counter resource pillaging atleast.
     
  5. Lyoncet

    Lyoncet Emperor

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    This is starting to sound a lot less like a "it's too hard to maintain peace" thread and more like a "is there any game where war isn't the best option?" thread. I can get on board with the last one. At least against AI, warring is typically far too high ROI for most any strategy.

    However, at least up to immortal (again, never tried deity), I've had no trouble winning roughly 75% of my games regardless of the strategy I use even if I don't actually take any city or even pillage an opponent who DoWed on me. My win percentage may have dropped a bit post-patch since for some reason the RNG seems to like plopping me between (and pretty much directly adjacent to) Montezuma and Bismarck when I'm trying OCC culture wins, but even without doing anything cheesier than trading luxuries for gold, completely passive wins don't seem that difficult to me. They're usually not going to be optimal, at least until Firaxis patches SP war to be less profitable or more difficult, but completely doable.

    Perhaps someone with deity experience can enlighten us if that's the case all the way up there too. :)
     
  6. Helmling

    Helmling Philosopher King

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    Well, I just finished my peaceful game. Not a single war. I just dug in on a peninsula with lots of marble, some whales, a dinky vein of two iron, and hills that later turned out to be loaded with uranium, but no aluminum or coal. I just pursued culture like a madman and spent 90% of my income over 6,000 years on Research Agreements.

    I had to cheat like crazy to win, though. Elizabeth built the UN as I was preparing for my Utopia project. I had to "manipulate luck" through reloads to bribe just the right City States out of voting for her in order to buy myself enough time to finish. As I did, the last components were going on a few space ships. Very close win on Emperor (Huge, 22 Civs, 28 CS's).

    So peace is possible, but it wasn't easy. This is my first Emperor win since the patch.
     
  7. kamex

    kamex Emperor

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    Agreed, archipelago is much 'safer' because the AI is too poor to know how to conduct a naval invasion.

    Theres nothing challenging about wiping your continent as France or Songhai, remembering to puppet everything, and allowing the culture bonuses to propel you to a 'peaceful cultural victory'. Again, archipelago is broken because the AI doesn't understand how to play.

    That sounds like a slow tedious game. :p

    Nope, but its always easier to win the peaceful conditions by steamrolling, especialy on immortal / deity.

    Yeah, this is often true for me too, but I go for diplo cos its faster and ends the game quicker. :rolleyes:
     
  8. aatami

    aatami Kuruth Urfarah, kuruth!

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    Just have some defences, it's as easy as that.
     
  9. wannabewarlord

    wannabewarlord Prince

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    If you talk about Deity only, I cannot comment as I play Emperor. But on Emperor it is very well possible to run peaceful games. In fact, I do that on a regular basis as I find domination victories boring.

    Sure, you need some defenses, but you absolutely don't have to be the most dominant force. Keeping a good diplo game and a somewhat actual army keeps the AI away long enough for me to win by science or culture.

    Even if the AI DOWs on you, a small force can effectively fend of a much larger army, even though your advisor urges you for immediate peace since your very existence is apparently threatened. :lol:.

    So, unless your statement is a pure Deity statement, I call foul. If it is for Deity only, then I don't even want to go there ;)
     
  10. radiohodet

    radiohodet Chieftain

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  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    You have a higher chance of building no military and not dying in civ IV culture than in civ V now I think. However, the minimum threshold of military required to survive as a % of your hammer/resource allocation is lower by far due to 1UPT and more trade abuse potential. Civ IV is probably harder when things hit the fan there, but V more consistent
     
  12. kamex

    kamex Emperor

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    An interesting thread, but I can't honestly see this being reliable. Where is the 'fun' in not destroying a weaker neighbour?

    Okies, I know the OP suggested (correctly I still believe) that an aggressive play style is far better, but sure you can win sometimes peracefully, tho I do believe you were somewhat lucky there.

    As TheMeInTeam has mentioned in other threads, when the AI RNG decides your going to die, you need to be ready. In your game, if Monty had decided to back stab you as he often does, and bribes Spain to join in, you'd be in serious trouble. :mischief:
     
  13. mihaifx

    mihaifx Warlord

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    This pretty much summarizes the way I run things :D
    In addition, kill all AI that refuse a fair trade with you or "steal" city states.
     
  14. Zaimejs

    Zaimejs Emperor

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    I finally figured this out.... dominant military and expansion is the way to go. I haven't tried the few cities/culture victory. I'll have to try that. But other than that... strength...kill or be killed.

    America! F yeah!
     
  15. kamex

    kamex Emperor

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    Since there can be only one winner in Civ V, theres no point in 'friends'.

    You have to back stab them to win eventually anyway, either aggressively or peacefully.
     
  16. DSChapin

    DSChapin Warlord

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    Your OP sounds like a condemnation of Civ V, but did you play any earlier Civ version? Because Deity always involved giant handicap bonuses. And yes, asking for an AI that can outplay you without bonuses in a strategic game as complicated as Civ IS too much to ask for.


    The only difference, as MkLh says, is that now the AI is playing to win. Since you claim to be asking for an AI that can outplay you, shouldn't that include attacking you? Or did you mean outplay you to utopia victory only?

    (And yes, I find the AI more warlike than I might like, because building games are fun. But I don't think the AI is "worse" than in previous Civ games - really, it's better.)
     
  17. Helmling

    Helmling Philosopher King

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    Yeah, the last hundred turns is mostly just hitting "next turn" and hoping. But I find fighting the AI even more tedious. Actually, I find the whole game tedious...I swear, I don't know why I'm so addicted to it, but I am.
     
  18. code9

    code9 Warlord

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    It would be cool if the AI could be set up to go for utopia victory only. Then maybe we could all avoid war, and the game would play out completely differently.
     
  19. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    It would be nice if this were true, but it isn't. AI still underexpand, attack people it can't beat, and declare on the wrong civs due to diplo rather than optimized winning chances.

    The problem is that the AI neither roleplays coherently nor actually plays to win; it's an in-between slop and the AI will pick one or the other at random depending on the civ and some RNG outcomes.
     
  20. jagdtigerciv

    jagdtigerciv Prince

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    This says it all. I play on Immortal and the same applies.

    Never a peaceful game ever? What were you expecting? It's a game about civilization: in other words, war of some kind is inevitable. And if you play correctly, you can have a relatively peaceful game with the most wars being proxy self defense conflicts.
     

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