[R&F] Rise and Fall encourages Wars

[Karpius]

It usually takes 150~160 turns(standard speed, average leader, random map) to research all 67 techs and 50 civics( I recall my worst record is on one map to focus on 250T score so I was even trying to slow down tech and civic to make cheaper districts, that map takes 175 turns, maybe 178)

I have never matched such speed on any level or map of the game. Of course, I have never tried to either.

I think its one of the finer qualities of this game that it can lend itself to various styles of play. Some like to race and some like to immerse. To each their own, of course.

In my current game, I am at turn 770. I certainly did not have all the research done before turn 300. Standard speed, king level. Ludicrous map. That means that for four hundred-plus turns we have all been at the same research level. No more wonders to build, but still a good bit of land to settle. If the Science VC had been enable, I would have won around turn 300. Culture victory would have been around 350. No one has achieved a Religious victory (though I could probably polish that off at this point if I hastened a bit.). The turn limit was set for 2000 and the real challenge I set for myself was to reach the highest number of 'ecstatic' cities possible, as well as a culture score of two thousand or better, and a treasury topping 500,000 gold.

So obviously Lily and I differ wildly on play styles and goals.

If anything R&F is for the immersive player and detailed player.

Based one what I have seen so far, I am quite hopeful this is the case.

 

[Victoria]

Based one what I have seen so far, I am quite hopeful this is the case

Based on what I saw tonight this is certainly the case. As will war be because while you settle quite far apart anything but the first few cities will have loyalty issues. And war is the easy way out of that.

I certainly did not have all the research done before turn 300

I pushed this diagram out earlier in a science pushing thread. It gives you a good idea that building a couple of campuses is not what Lily does. Instead it is about campuses everywhere, pushing all science city states as many envoys as you can get and taking Papal Primacy. Even using specialists which provide more science than I expected.

 

[steveg700]

I think its one of the finer qualities of this game that it can lend itself to various styles of play. Some like to race and some like to immerse. To each their own, of course.

See, I have to question that Civ lends itself to a style of play just because someone chooses to play it that way. I think that generosity of spirit speaks of your own fine qualities.

Civ is a game full of exploitable elements, and they remain naked even as you move the difficulty up. Pumping steroids into Forrest Gump until he's a 400 lb. blob of pseudo-muscle doesn't make him a chess grandmaster. Pulling my trusty snub-nosed .38 out of my pocket and shooting Uber-Gump between the eyes and then knocking over his king does not make me a chess grandmaster. Yet, nothing in Chess's rules expressly forbid me from doing any of this, so perhaps I could take a sense of accomplishment from speed-playing chess against the toughest of opponents thanks to my clever and masterful monkey shines. We play games for fun, so hat's is all well and good (well, for me, not Gump) but my better angels insist that no one should bear witness to that series of events and call it a testament to chess's elegant design.

Civ is an addictive ant-farm activity, but it's hardly a game of grand strategy designed to challenge someone looking to "solve" it. It has an implicit contract with the player and trying to opt out of that contract by beelining past the buffet to the victory line is essentially a win by forfeiture. Nobody's designing this game to oppose someone trying their hardest to end their experience as early as possible. That's my two pence.