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[R&F] Rise and Fall expectations polled

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Art Morte, Nov 28, 2017.

?

+++Great new mechanics and stuff, will Civ6 reach all its potential?

  1. ++More content, more longevity, more joy

    82 vote(s)
    60.7%
  2. +More content without fundamental improvements

    25 vote(s)
    18.5%
  3. -More content with the same problems

    23 vote(s)
    17.0%
  4. --Tired ideas that won't make the game better

    4 vote(s)
    3.0%
  5. ---Bring back 1UPT

    1 vote(s)
    0.7%
  1. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Actually, I don't think any of votes apply to me.

    To me, I have bought the game six months ago, and in terms of concepts, the game is evolving at a good pace, more so than I'd ever expect. The way they revamped religion in Fall was great (even though I usually ignore it anyways), but it seems like they are developing solid game mechanics. I expect the game to be much better in 2018. If I were to throw arbitary numbers out where 5 is considered average. Civ VI at Spring would have been a 5/10, Civ V is a 6/10, Civ VI atm is a 6.5/10, Civ IV would be an 8.5/10. I expect VI at its current trajectory to pass 7/10

    But I fear the same issues will remain, namely the UI issues, and the AI. The AI being stupid is something I can live with, but the fact that the game's UI is so terrible and really hasn't shown any signs of improvement is not a good sign. The other thing holding back Civ 6 are blatantly obvious bugs such as the start bugs. Basically, what I've seen is if they screw up on a patch (such as 1g for great works) the game is left broken several months until the next update. That has been awful. These things in tandem can cause a very bad impression on new players, and it would be sad if they got turned away just because of that.

    This 3 things I think will always limit Civ 6 to being "somewhat enjoyable, with a degree of annoyance" instead of an actually great game. That's not a bad place considering what comes out today, but one can hope.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
  2. noto2

    noto2 Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
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    1,711
    I just played some Civ 4 after having not touched it in about 2 years and was blown away at how much easier it is to manage things. With hotkeys I could simply add items to either the beginning or end of my build queue, with right-clicks of the mouse I never needed to actually enter a city management screen. With one or two waypoints I never really needed to bother with micromanaging my troops. Turns could fly by. It's possible to play an entire game of Civ 4 on a standard map at standard speed in 2-3 hours with few wars or even 3-4 hours in a war heavy game.

    I understand that 1 UPT makes waypoints difficult, but why did Firaxis abandon queues? I think part of it is the focus on scaling the game down, starting in Civ 5, where you would have fewer cities and fewer units to command, but this doesn't really work. Managing 5 cities in Civ 5 is more work than managing 20 cities in Civ 4. Managing an army of 5 units is more work than managing a stack of 1000. UI has really regressed...

    Also, bad AI is not something I can live with, not sure how anyone can, really. Bad AI completely ruins the game for me. I'll sacrifice graphics, sound, even UI if I could get a better AI. If a game can't feasibly be played against humans, and the AI doesn't present a reasonable challenge, I see no point in playing it at all.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  3. Nikae

    Nikae Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
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    Hungary
    Since none of the underlying issues that the game has -poor AI, various UI issues, game pacing far too fast- are to be addressed, option 3 perfectly fits.

    Seriously, I have not read the forum for a year, but the people mourning civ4 are still at large. I wonder how much they realize how much of its quality comes from the decade-long polished mods they play with...
     
  4. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Yea, it is pretty annoying. Almost turns the player from the immortal leader into an immortal bureaucrat.
     
  5. Talcove

    Talcove Slayer of Spies

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    Why do the negatives get three options while the positives only get two? Put in +++Change to 0.5 units per tile!

    In all seriousness, though, 1UPT really should not be in there (I assume it means bring back stacks). It is a dead issue. It was not in Civ 5, or it's expansion. It was not in Beyond Earth, or it's expansion. It was not in Civ6, and there is no indication that it will be back. The entire game and it's mechanics are built around a foundation of 1UPT. Stacks are not coming back, 1UPT is the new normal. The game is better for it.
     
    Craig_Sutter likes this.
  6. Gabhar

    Gabhar Warlord

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    I don't think any expansion will ever fix the fundamental issues that stop the game from being truly great. Lots of nice ideas but rocky implementation that makes it pretty underwhelming. The AI won't ever be any good and the diplomatic game will likely remain as something that might as well not exist.
     
  7. noto2

    noto2 Emperor

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    The game is WORSE for it, much, much, much worse. 1 UPT was a facepalm-tier stupid mistake and Civ5, BE, and Civ6 have proven this. Civ 5 managed to be a good game despite 1UPT because of all the other great things they added (like city states and a better religion system). Why they have stuck with 1UPT I cannot understand. It makes the game far more difficult to design and the AI pathetically weak.
     
    devolution and Roald Amundsen like this.
  8. Mr Jon of Cheam

    Mr Jon of Cheam Prince

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    They certainly haven't perfected 1UPT but it's still better in my opinion, I hated the stacks of doom, it's the main reason I could never love IV despite its many good points. Battles just came down to who had the biggest stack, so boring. Different strokes for different folks I guess!
     
    Craig_Sutter and CPWimmer like this.
  9. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Moderator Action: The 1 UPT design decision is off-topic for this thread. Please return to the topic of this thread -- R&F expectations.
     
  10. Icicle

    Icicle Prince

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    I loved city flipping in Civ 3 so much. Bringing that back is enough for me to say "more content" so yay.

    However the AI remains the biggest gripe and I don't see any indication that this will improve, so that's as far as I'm willing to go atm.
     
  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Civ 6 isn't exactly more mod-friendly either though.

    Mods improved civ 4 UI, but the base UI of civ 4 >> 6 by such a wide margin in the objective measures (# inputs, navigation, time/turn etc) that it's sad. Firaxis didn't just regress in this regard, they massively regressed. Firaxis does not prioritize this, so there's no reason to expect it to be better in the expansion.

    Diplo game will always be irrelevant until the AI is designed to work on game incentives (IE actually try to win, not whatever the travesty civ 5 was).

    This has never been true in any civ game played at a decent level of knowledge. After the earliest ones each has had its own tactical considerations and throwing #'s alone against anybody competent = loss. That's still true today, for different reasons.
     
    hdbhdbvGFG541 likes this.

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