Rise and fall of Empires, idea...

TVA22

King
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
605
I feel that I've just had a stroke of genius, and would like to share it with all of you:

First, let me say this would only work on a pre-made map, which sucks, but there you go. Anyway, I'm going to use China (because I'm a sinophile) as an example here, so stay with me.

Say China is at war with Japan, and Japan has been given some extra units so that it's very powerful in the Industrial age, and is really besting China in this war. Suppose Japan takes over half of China's cities, and is just bent on destroying it's foe. Ordinarily, the more cities Japan gains, the worse it looks for China, because Japan simply has more cities making infantry, tanks, whatever, and as Stalin said, 'quantity has a quality all it's own.(but in Russian I assume)'

So anyway, to solve this problem, we put a resource down and call it 'China,' and place it under a city, say, Nanking. Also put one down at Kyoto, or Tokyo, or for this purpose probably a better place would be in Manchuria, and call it 'Japan.'

Then make a new improvement that requires 'China' and call it volunteer office. This improvement should produce a unit called 'Chinese recruit' that has the same stats as infantry, but a hit point penalty so that it's just like a drafted unit.

Then there should be two other Chinese infantry units, and this is the key part: a unit called 'Chinese resistor' or 'chinese guerrilla'(sp?) that requires no resources, and is twice as powerful in every way over infantry, and has a hit point bonus as well, possibly a sizable one.

Make this resource required for a unit that the above unit upgrades to, i.e. 'Chinese regular' Chinese infantry... blah, whatever. This unit is a regular one that can be built, drafted, etc, but obviously requires 'China.'

This basically all means that when China loses Nanking to the Japanese, their units fall back to the last best unit they can build, which is actually superior to the unit they get with the resource. This allows them to suddenly counterattack the japanese with force, and perhaps push all the way into Manchuria, but as soon as they retake Nanking, they can no longer build these super-powerful units, because they'll have the resource back, and so their units will 'upgrade' to the more inferior unit. If they take over the Japanese resource, a similar thing could happen with Japanese infantry units.

The super-infantry unit should be so powerful so as to allow the civ that's losing to still compete with the other civ's certain access to oil, and rubber, and hence, tanks and planes. That's the same reason to have these recruiting center type improvements, to take away somewhat from the decisiveness of other units out there, by flooding people's armies with cheap, crappy infantry.

There's an obvious glaring problem though, the Human player could simply give away their city with the resource in it, or abandon it, and pillage roads leading to the resource, thereby making their army super-powerful without having lost the city in a war. Obviously the AI would not do this, and the implementation of these changes would probably make the AI players a bit stronger on the defensive, once you press into their homeland. As it is now, they seem to roll over and play dead once you take a certain percentage of their cities. They never really rally to the cause at all.

I've not tried this myself yet, I just thought it up while at work today, but I have played mods I've made myself with nation-specific resources, and for the most part it seems to work out fine. Occasionally, the AI players muscle each other out of their nation-specific resources, and force each other to trade it. (I assume this is what's going on, because there's only 1 of each, and it's always really powerful civs that have really weak civs' resources) This shouldn't be a problem though, because let's suppose Britain is really powerful, and they muscle China out of it's resource, 'china,' maybe by the time the trade deal is up, China will have built so many of it's super-infantry units that Britain won't try demanding it again?

What do you think? Sure it's a lot of work, but it might be interesting!
 
TVA22 its sounds like a good idea, but i hate to deflate your balloon a little,:D but guerilla movements by themselves do not win wars without the support of conventional forces of either the host nation, or foreign armies. Now before someone says "Well the Viet Cong beat the US in Vietnam!" No they did not. The VC forces were basicly wiped out after the failed Tet offensive, and the Army of North Vietnam took up the slack, and continued the attacks till the US public got sick of the war and forced an end by civil disturbance. Or the Person who might say what about the American revolutionary war? Well the American forces were getting their butts kicked till Valley Forge and the training of the Prussian officer Baron Von Steuben. Then still needed intervention of the French to secure independence.

What i would call the extra unit would be something like "insert name, Intervention force", and give it hidden nationality, to represent international intervention forces that wish to help. Just my two cents.:)

Cheers Thorgrimm
 
No the Guerilla movement turned into a conventioal army being supplied by the Soviets and Chinese.

Cheers Thorgrimm
 
The name is really inconsequential, I was just proposing a potentially interesting idea. That said, I think given my example, guerrilla tactics were quite effective. Does anyone really believe the Japanese could ever have subjugated the Chinese nation? Certainly, the war ended because of the United States bombing Japan into ruins, but in the end I believe China, due to it's massive population, and size would eventually have beaten Japan, or maybe they'd still be fighting today. The majority of the Japanese best troops were tied down in China, fighting the resistance, not fighting the US troops in the south pacific. Anyway, I don't need a history lesson, and I don't want to talk about Vietnam, I've read quite enough about that unfortunate episode in human history. Wonderful example of how my country chooses allies over it's own principles when the poop hits the fan.
 
It would make more sence to have the better troops only have one more HP and cost a lot less but have the same stats. Then give it a name that would represent the change from normal to military production and the resulting increase in modern weapons available and in use by the troops.
 
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