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Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

  1. King Coltrane

    King Coltrane King

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    as far as the mod being in debug... we ARE still testing it lol.

    @pink...
    haha, ok then on transalpine gaul, i would always take them after my first punic war, but instead ill mass troops and take bovanium (hehe) to deal with those pesky samnites early (still like d of 3 for legio though). I must say that i like Randy's ideas that he just said, i say we try to implement them, once we have info on how they work out. thats all for now
     
  2. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    ok, good.

    Yes, since you reported forbidden palace-type wonder did not go obsolete, at least with normal courthouse-type improvements, they will! This means corruption is now only reduced in the city. I didn't force the player to have a absolutist type of government for the two mentioned improvements thinking that the government was now interesting enough on its own (with draft unit possible). Now, I can see that puting the requirement could be historically correct, so I am ok either way.
    I hate adding resources visible to the Roman (as you can see with my playing with resource requirement for some wonders) either luxury (which number must be controled in order to give mood-improving buildings an importance) or strategic (to keep the city screen unmessed of useless resources). I thought that the main interest of Hadrian's wall (avoid stealth attack from the Pictii) would bring the player to make the wall were it was without having to force anyone.
    ok!
    See below, this is how I assumed it would be (I still hope to be able to correct that list according to feedback)

    :crazyeye: all limes have now a resource requirement (anchor)! One should be along the Rhine, one likely in Syria, and one near Sirmium/Naissus. I can further reduce all their costs a bit but 5 is really getting low?! Don't you like their effects (free siege engineers that can be later converted in polyvalent ones?). Maybe once the invasion correctly take place will these limes become really usefull?
    ok, good! Tell me how it goes :)
    Ok, and glad to hear the empire pop dynamics are going historical!
    Guessed so :) I wait some more and let see where the vote (based on v0.7) brings us.
    ok
    Have to find more incentive for Christian Principate so. What about the other gov, are they attractive enough for the player to follow them (Rep->T. Rep->Princ->Abs->Princ/Abs/C. Princ)?
    Ah no :D You need to build that wonder sooner or later to build Edictum Mediolani which give a free church in every city (which I believe is a great wonder, since churches can't be build without an earlier persecution, check the BIQ. Church mood effects being doubled with bibla, they are a critical mood improvement medium-late in the game). The incentive to build that 'bad' culture-loosing wonder early on is that if you so, you can then build church much earlier than with Constantine, which will negate some of the culture loss and add 1 or even two people happy! Any way, you need the persecutions carried-out before you can get churches and basilica. In other word, no persecutions, no happy people after the conversion of Constantine, when all pagan improvements become obsolete!
    ok
    Oh come this is still set on one :blush: ?!
    Fish would do great in addition to existing game. A variety of diets is the key to a long life I was told :)
    Good :) Let me know how that work. Do you follow the idea I throwed in a post yesterday? I made some testing about locked alliance and HN units long ago (v0.3 or so) and if I remember correctly, HN units more or less ignore allied cities and go for nearby real enemy cities. Meanwhile, the ally will attack these HN units nonetheless. This is why I put Germanics and Scythia in a locked alliance since that version.

    Thanks Randy :goodjob:
     

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  3. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    I somewhat managed to forgot these guys had bellatores as well ;) Well, are they now really too strong for a quick conquest by the end of the 1st punic war? This shouldn't be an easy walkthrough campaign, but with so little cities in such a limited number, I doubt the Cisalpines Gauls can resiste to full strenght of Rome! Poor samnites...
     
  4. blitzkrieg80

    blitzkrieg80 ðrymes ðēoden

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    Ok... is Imperium Belisarii suppose to require Absolutism? If so, does that mean the player is suppose to never use Christian Principate, or switch back just to build that?
     
  5. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    Blitz, you are dearly encouraged to switch to absolutism under Constantine (which is why you have all these administrators coming in) to get Belisarus. If you prefer a Christian Principate by then, it involves your empire is still huge and intact, and thus that you don't need the services of that great general to reconquer the West :)
     
  6. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    Thanks! I hope they will be as much dreadful in-game invading Rome and razing cities than they look good!

    @Jaden
    Welcome, sorry for the debug stuff, and please, give feedback :)!
     
  7. King Coltrane

    King Coltrane King

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    ill tell you how my war with the italian gauls goes when it happens, ill wait till after the punic war. btw, i love all the new graphics... excellent choices pink!
     
  8. blitzkrieg80

    blitzkrieg80 ðrymes ðēoden

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    I see Oil is new, although it seems like it might need to be renamed... Are Oil resources suppose to be in Parthia and Carthage? How would one be UNABLE to build the Limes Danuvii in either of those areas, if that is suppose to be an anchor like I assume?
     
  9. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    Thanks Coltrane.
    Blitz, oil is what I got when I translate from the french. What should be the correct english for that burning fuel used by that time? Agreed, the limes can be built everywhere there is 'oil', but since you already have one in the East and I don't see why you would build it in Africa, the choice in then only left for the Lower Danube region. I will try to add another anchor resource so that the combo is only existing near Naissus.
     
  10. Asclepius

    Asclepius AWOL

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    This maybe a bit late now the new patch is out but I am getting the feeling that the details to this mod are fantastic but the overall concept doesn't quite work...yet. This is more of a general overview of the whole mod and how I feel it plays.

    I have played a very defensive, slow campaign of conquest in my game (i.e. not very successful!). I even deliberately slowed some of my research so that some wonders weren't obsolete before they had an effect, yet I have finished the tech tree in 358. (I'm sure this could have been way faster). My empire spans all of Hispania, Gallia, Italia, Pannonia, Moessia, Thracia, Dacia and the med. islands. I never bothered with the near east or north Africa, but it doesn't seem to have affected my empire. I am now swimming in gold, building huge defences along my frontiers....but there doesn't seem to be any "end game" threat or any chance I will be defeated. Maybe I should wait for the Incursio Magna but I don't see it having any effect by then. I'm also lacking a focus...how do you win? What achievement is necessary that could be considered winning? I'm expecting more along the lines of "survive until 500 with Roma, Ravenna, Sirmium and Constantinople still occupied". Four victory locations that would spell defeat if they all fall. I don't seem to be able to build Legatum Iustiniani in Constantinople so that's a non-starter!

    I understand why all of the oil is contained in the Eastern Empire (at its height) but surely Constantinople should be able to build Greek Fire without access to these far flung places? It was used to successfully defend the city directly and I don't think it relied on "imports" to create it, I don't believe there was even any oil in Greek Fire, was there?!

    Also the Seleucids, Persians and Caucasians have destroyed a few cities. I know this is a civ problem but it never seems to happen in Europe, anything you can do to stop this happening in the East?

    Hope this helps with game play as I'm not too good with suggesting specific unit or rule changes.
     
  11. IXIRandyIXI

    IXIRandyIXI Dirty Warmonger

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    Oh, one thing I missed! Velites can't built roads any more and are back to having 2 movement points. Intended?

    No, Gallia Cisalpina is always an easy conquest. Heck, in my last game I conquered them in 4 turns with a 3-pronged attack. Very easy. :p

    Yes, they are pretty useful for building up the defenses along the borders... at least, the Roman-German borders. Fortifications aren't too useful along the Persian and Sarmatian's borders since they're much too mobile to stop with immobile fortified positions. ;) It's just that in places (such as the Oriental one) have so much corruption that it takes forever to build the things with their current prices.

    For me at least, yes. Sometimes I skip right over T. Rep. because of the sudden technology jump thanks to Dictator Perpetuus that gives me the Principate government, but if you fall behind in techs, you can still be forced to switch over to T. Rep. for a while. Absolutism is of course only worth switching over to if you still have wars to wage (so it fits its purpose), both when you first discover it and later on with Justinian. C. Principate, as I said, doesn't have much appeal over just the normal Principate or Absolutism. Guess we'll have to brainstorm on how to make it more attractive!

    Bah! I still think that Rome should get something that gives a huge amount of culture so that it can be seen as the #1 city around the known world (when you hit F11).

    Yes, I made it so all later barbarian units are invisible and HN and ONLY Roman nation units can see them. May the Persian's god(s) help them if the barbarians decide to take over Persia. :lol:
     
  12. jobiwan7

    jobiwan7 Jedi Scholar

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    Is the Greek/Eastern Sagitarii supposed to have a bombard range of zero? It has bombard stats and ability, but no range! I'm assuming the range should be one, correct?

    Also, why don't you use Civ Babylonian Bowmen graphics for eastern archers/roman archer auxilia?
     
  13. IXIRandyIXI

    IXIRandyIXI Dirty Warmonger

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    Some more quick changes I made:

    I'm really missing being able to sign military alliances against other countries with, at the very least, other civilized nations. It made it so the Roman player doesn't have to win by only military might, but also by skilled diplomacy (such as turning the Greek nations against each other, then moving in and conquering the weakened nations). Can Rome be given the ability to sign military alliances with other countries?

    I never really noticed this until I lost the ability to sign military alliances, but there's a problem with Magna Graecia's military support. It masses TONS of Hoplites in all of its cities and can support them because of the City State's high military unit support. Maybe make a special "Colonies" government or something for Magna Graecia with lower military support? It's just kind of ridiculous that my army of 12 Legios, 2 Equites, and 3 Velites nearly wiped out on an attack of Bovianum shortly after the 1st Punic War & the conquests of Gallia Cisalpina and Illyria. :mad: And that was their weakest city!

    The slow start technology-wise leaves Rome behind when trying to rush "against time" (the techs the AI is researching). I'm lowering the early techs costs (up to Triumvirate) by a little bit so that Rome can keep up.

    Allowed Velites and Milites Auxiliari to build roads at 100 Worker strength. Increased ALL Legion's worker strength by 100.
     
  14. blitzkrieg80

    blitzkrieg80 ðrymes ðēoden

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    Seeing the minimum time for the shortest of Rome's techs and remembering what you said Pink... wasn't the min research rate suppose to be 7? It might be the nice balance between 12 and 2
     
  15. blitzkrieg80

    blitzkrieg80 ðrymes ðēoden

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    Pink: Your English is fine. I just thought maybe it was a default name, because Oil as a resource seems so modern (besides the modernity within Civ3), but in fact, "Oil" makes perfect sense, just a simple name, and more sense than "Saltpeter," which I've seen used elsewhere, although I liked Saltpeter, which still makes some sense as opposed to no resource.
    The Limes Danuvii should be anchored in my opinion, although why need Oil in particular, just temporary? The Moena Hadrianus should be anchored too. Why anchor anything if the player is suppose to figure it out themselves? Why provide incentive on changing Governments if the player has to want to do it for history's sake? How much do some people know anyways? Most people don't know much history or even play civ3 in the most logical way, btw- what is it? =0P

    Aesclepius: Since Greek Fire burned in water (maybe even underwater) many think it had to contain some form (and thus properties) of oil (petroleum). Sorry if I disagree, but I think it's reasonable to think that Byzantium should at least receive Oil from the Crimea [thought to be the source], Near East or just north of Macedonia... without that territory there wouldn't be much of the Byzantine Empire (just Greece) and historically they would be out of Oil (it had to be imported, although probably stored on a massive scale) and thus Byzantium should fall.
    I may be wrong, but don't cities get destroyed when they are fought over too frequently and the 1 pop. last remnants of a city switch possession? If so, maybe it's unavoidable.

    Randy, I agree on the fact that Rome should have the #1 spot and Rome specifically having so much culture shouldn't affect anything unless I've missed something.

    Finally and genrally, I think the Cisalpine Gauls shouldn't be such a pushover (for history's sake)... once again I am a barbarianist =o) and contemplate their merging into a greater Gaul. Gaul should be some serious business... maybe moreso than the Germans since they did rule (although ununified) all the way into Scandanavia. T'was the pesky Romans who ended the Celts' great "rix" (Old Irish) aka "rex" (Latin) aka reiks (Gothic) aka ric (Old English) aka reich (Modern High German), the linguistics say it all.
     
  16. blitzkrieg80

    blitzkrieg80 ðrymes ðēoden

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    umm just so I'm not misquoted... it is rih for Old Irish =0) yes its another Friday night of off tangents
     
  17. blitzkrieg80

    blitzkrieg80 ðrymes ðēoden

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    I noticed the Burgundi of the western border have been replaced... =o) thank you, my compulsion for accuracy for the East Germans is satisfied (although technically the Vesigoths should still be considered Scythian by later lifeway adaptation)

    Sorry to be so nit-picky- Thuringii is a good capital of Germania by location and powerbase, hence the current name of the province, but Thuringi is a name applied to the Hermunduri, but later bastardized... Hermun[duri] + ing(meaning offspring of) => Duringi => Thuringi... so therefore, I have the true name in my book as Hermundurings.. so I propose Hermunduringi for this scenario... any comments? =oP
     
  18. blitzkrieg80

    blitzkrieg80 ðrymes ðēoden

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    OK... I am truly embarassed now to have posted now 5 times in a row, but I thought I'd mention something real quick.... in my game I can't seem to sacrifice my slaves?! NO!!!!! Cultural conversions making me sick... I looked at .62 and saw that the Advance: "Civilized" used to give the ability to Permit Sacrifices... but in .7 I cannot find that technology (deleted?) and am wondering if maybe no tech gives that ability and that's why I can't sacrifice... anyone else NOT able to sacrifice? I am going to let Civilized Buildings allow that ability for a temporary solution...
     
  19. mungman

    mungman Chieftain

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    Hi, I've been playing this first on v.62 and now on v.7 and have to say it's fantastic. I've been hesitant to add so far, mainly because I'm not all that experienced with the editor etc, so I wasn't too sure what I could add.

    However, after playing to 30bc on v.7 I feel I can give a decent report. First some bugs I noted.

    1) Can no longer sacrifice captured servii in the great games. Don't know why this is, did you perhaps add a building I'm unaware of that's needed first?

    2) Can't build Circus Maximus. This is because it requires Roma and Slaves, and they must both be in the radius for it to be built. So I added a slaves resource directly to the south of Rome.

    3) Imperium Scipionis never produced a Legionis Scipionis. After reflecting, it might have been obsolete at the time, but I don't recall getting a message saying it was.

    Now for the play test. By 30bc I had conquered Carthaginian Spain, Cisalpine Gaul, Carthaginian Islands, Sicily, Northern Illyria (Aquileia conquered by Germans, Southern Macedonia, and Western Carthaginian Africa (Carthage had reconquered before I stopped).

    Here's my take on it. Magna Graecia is way too powerful as is. I wasn't able to take Bovianum until ~175bc and then it required an army of approx. 25 units (mixed between legio, velites, and hop. alarii). My suggestion is to raise the cost for Hoplites from 40 to 45. I haven't tested it yet, but I'll let you know.

    Germans are too powerful too early. I was just about to begin the second Punic War (around 200bc) when out of nowhere a huge stack (~30-40) of Bellatores shows up. I should have been prepared as I had just taken Illyria and was building up to finish them off (around 20 legios, velites and hop. alarii) but I could not stop them. Even on open ground my legios were losing to them while on the offensive. If it wasn't for a humiliating treaty and tribute, they would have overrun Italy. Personally, I think Bellatores should have a def of around 2-3 instead of 4. Early Barbarians were good attackers and ambushers, but if attacked, they really didn't have the strategic know-how early on to counter Rome. For my second go I've lowered the Bellatores to 3 def.

    Another problem I ran into was Carthage kept culture flipping all the cities I conquered from them. It made it about impossible to build up the way I was able to in v.62 since just as I would reach peace and could rebuild my economy, a city would flip and I'd have to retake it. This is what led to me losing North Africa at the very end of my last game. Of course, if I could get the Great Games back that might fix it, as I would always sacrifice my captured servii and build up the culture that way.

    Also, alliances, it would be good to be able to ally with the Greek city states in addition to Macedonia and Pergamum.

    Well that's about it for now. I'll let you know how the game with my changes goes. Hope I've been able to help some.
     
  20. loki1232

    loki1232 Loki

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    I completely agree that the Germans are way too powerful in the beginning of the game.
     

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