Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

[gringoesteban]

deleted and moved to post #1360

 

[jvoutsas]

First of all, it's a very nice mod. Very detailed, but...

1. It's only possible to play Roma. (Sure, for me, it's also possible activate all civ with the editor.)
2. And here I see your bad balanced settings: Try to play Epirotes. The Epirotes don't have any chance to win against Rome - historically unaccurate -, because they're unable to build units (in your mod). - ! - The Epirotes don't have only one (and not Roma) diplomatic contact.
3. In your mod, I find sometimes units of other nations somewhere else and bad placed.
4. The AI is important, because it's your opponent. And the AI is in your mod bad balanced. Your suggestion to only play with Roma don't show, that my roman opponents are underpowered and Roma is overpowered.
5. Research: The Romans has 275BC nice military and troop researchment, but it's unrealistic to build an detailed tech tree only for the Roma. In long games other nations don't have a chance against a human Roma.
6. Graphics - ! -: Your terrain and some units looks very weird. Look here: http://www.civforum.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=24117 (http://www.civforum.de/showthread.php?t=10789)
7. Ports: Blockading ports is impossible in Civ, or unnecessary. Why you don't use port-resources in water, which get you a +20 or +30 trade, so when you blockade it, the empire lost much money? Instead of this, you have to reduce many other trade-bonuses of other resources.
8. Shipyard: Maybe an shipyard-resource for ship building?
9. Historical infos: Athenae was at 275BC very weakly; Athenae was some years ago at control of Macedonia. Sparta, Athenae were not strong enough as in your mod - and sure not allied.
10. AI Roma: Use Militaristic and Expansionistic
11. Germania: German territory is maybe too large. Look at some "Rome:Total War" Mods: www.twcenter.net

Many of the points you bring up have already been addressed. As a long time lurker to this thread, I know that pink designed the scenario to be played as Rome, and Rome only. The main reason being that the tech tree is built around the roman timeline, triggering events in roman history more often than new technologies. He couldn't do this for every civilization. There isn't enough room, nor should he have done it. They're are many good mods which allow you to play as any civilization in the ancient world. They're not nearly as specialized, which is what makes RFRE so cool and fun to play, even if we can only play Rome.

As for water trade, I do believe he removed it to increase game loading speeds and interturn times. I'd rather have a faster game. You can still trade luxes by "air", and techs aren't even tradeable anyways.

 

[lovegun]

I will make sure RFRE is forbidden to Koreans
Gaias, I am going to put you on the black list too, it is for your own good, poor friend: 42 hours seating in front of a computer screen... you must wear glasses thick like a brick

Well I am a Korean, but you don't have to ban me from RFRE I won't die from playing this mod too much, although it did quite reduce my sleep time.
South Korea has the best broadband Internet connection in the world, which makes network games like Starcraft and Warcraft very popular there. I love PC games too, but news of extreme Korean game-a-holics like this embarass me
For our health (and survival), let's take a stretch break after every hour of game-playing and not forget to eat and sleep.

 

[Gunner]

@beck

1. As jvoutsas said, this scenario is completely designed for Rome, you're not supposed to play the other civs.

2. Once again, you're criticizing the mod for something its not supposed to do. Epirus is meant to pose a moderate threat at the beggining for Rome and then get conquered, as happened historically.

3. What exactly do you mean. Examples would be good. The computer tends to send units around the map sometimes. Thats a civ problem.

4. I really don't understand what you are trying to say in that sentence.

5. The game is desgined for Rome. Thats why the player gets all of the cool technologies. The AI also gets techs, look in the first age. Try playing till about 400AD, then tell me again if the AI doesn't have any chance against Rome.

6. Well, your link is in another language and I didn't find any pictures. Why don't you just say what the problem is. Its really quite hard to fix a generalization with no specifics.

7. Thats a pretty good idea. Don't understand what you mean by reducing other trade resources.

8. Well, there is a resource to let you build veteran sea units.

9. Athenae isn't super-strong in this scen. If it and the other Greeks were much weaker, Macedon would steamroll them before Rome has a chance to get there.

10. Irrelevant.

11. Unlike RTW, there is no option in civ to have lands which are 'rebel.' The choice is either to have Germany be big or just not have cities there. And also, Germany usually becomes WAY too big in RTW, especially RTR. The main reason for a large Germany is to provide a challenge later in the game.

 

[lovegun]

@Lovegun: nice pics, and glad to see we already have most of these units made here at CFC ! The late cavalry, I guess a cataphract by all means, is impressive.

Actually it's a portrait of Roman cavarly in about 3rd century AD (The book does not cover Bizantine empire). So the most relevant RFRE unit would be legio eques (or is it eques legio?)

 

[Gunner]

Yeah lovegun, those pictures are awesome. In fact, I just ordered that book from Amazon!

 

[blitzkrieg80]

Beck, no offense, but you don't know what you're talking about!
I know everybody else has politely addressed this, but game-wise you haven't suggested anything new or elaborate and you haven't shown any extra
knowledge of history (unless holding back) than the quite knowledgeable designer and testers who have been painstakingly balancing gameplay and true historical accuracy. Sure, it would be great to play every civilization, but you can play the Ancient Mediterranean MOD if you want that, because the flaw is the inaccuracy of history because of too many variables... I like Rome: Total Realism MOD for Rome: Total War, but it has the SAME FLAW... versitility creates randomness and ahistorical situations.

 

[Gaias]

I will make sure RFRE is forbidden to Koreans
Gaias, I am going to put you on the black list too, it is for your own good, poor friend: 42 hours seating in front of a computer screen... you must wear glasses thick like a brick

Bah! I did that 7 years ago when I was playing Ultima Online (I know a sad point in my life ). Glasses? What is this about glasses? Sure 85 percent of my cornea has melted away in my left eye, and there is a permanently burntl image of pixelated characters on my right pupil... What does that have to do with anything??? Now I am smart about it. I will play for 42 hours... but i get sleep, work, eating, washroom, and workout inbetween the times i am not playing RFRE! Stupid RL stuff always gets in the way of my gaming!!!

First impressions of v0.93.

1. Of course the load times are much faster now that trade is limited to air. v0.922 uaually took me about 3-4 minutes to load. v0.93 takes about 30-40 seconds to load. I would say a significant decease in load time... don't yah think?

2. YAY!!! My contribution made the cut!!!

3. Random or Reason, the Carthagians are definitely alot mightier in their sea power. I did get sufficiently annoyed when they kept on sinking my triremes and corvuses. Was a long time before I was able to gain sufficent navel superiority. Though they are only slightly tougher on land with their gallic units. Not a significant increase in power to be a real threat... especially in Iberia.

4. Now I know that Epirus is more of a foreshadowing of things to come. I was wondering if you could spice up the beginning alittle more. For you see I rarely lose more than 2 units on fighting Pyrrus and his gang (a eques and a miles socius most of the times). Usually with the 2 consularis there, this fight is a cakewalk. Maybe have the 2 consularis units start in Rome. So that they do not get to Neapolis in the first turn of fighting? Just an idea.

Well that is all for now. Still fun to play after the 8th time. Well have to go back to the game... Might be the last time I post... Life is in danger now everytime I turn on the comp and fire up CivIII... Bye Bye cruel world!!!

 

[lovegun]

As far as I'm concerned, the goal of RFRE is to simulate the history of Roman empire as historically accurately as possible; the player is given an opportunity to build an empire under historical contingencies that were faced with the real Roman empire. (geographic location, diplomatic relations, technology, military strengths/weaknesses, etc)

That's the reason why only Rome is playable and the most of tech tree is devoted to Rome. Other civilizations need not and must not be playable.
1) It would be irrelevant for the purpose of this mod.
2) it would take up too much time and effort of designer as well as system resource and storage capacity of player, as whole new set of tech tree/city improvements/etc for each tribe/groups of tribe should be added.
3) It would ruin the historical accuracy of the mod, concering its timelines (Imagine Carthage still in the game in AD 500. Also, the starting year should be moved back to about 3,000 BC for Athens.)

 

[Gunner]

The thing Beck mentioned about adding a 'port' resource which gives a commerce bonus around major ports is a pretty good idea. It would make navies much more usefull.

I don't know which cities should get one, maybe Alexandria, Athens, Cyprus, Byzantium, and Carthage.

 

[lovegun]

Played v.93 till 259 AD, finishing 1st Punic War and starting to attack Gallia Cisalpina ...I certainly noticed some changes from v.9. Most of them makes the early game more difficult, which may or may not be a good thing.

1. Like Gaias said, Carthage is stronger. Can't tell much about their naval power as I keep my ships inside ports most of the time. But I experience 2-3 times more amphibious attacks from them on Sicily. Now I have to fortify each Sicilian city with at least one legion/miles socius and one velites just to defend the city for one turn, which I didn't need to do in v.9.

2. Carthage does not offer generous terms any more when signing a truce after the 1st Punic war - i.e., no huge gold per turn or Spanish city.

3. I am not sure, but I think sea trade is now not allowed. Now I can't build the Circus Maximus wonder (requires slave)and faber (requires wheat) and get egyptian goods, which makes early happiness control harder...

4. The new gold-color icons for portus/triumphus may look better but are harder to notice. I liked better the old icons (black figure in white rectangle) since they show important on-screen city information more clearly.

5. I think the enslavement rate of Roman military units has been somewhat reduced.

6. I suggest all the changes made in a new version should be added in the readme file in detail. They are achievements in game design which are worth documenting and will help players to adapt to new environments.

 

[Fictionles]

Played v.93 till 259 AD, finishing 1st Punic War and starting to attack Gallia Cisalpina ...I certainly noticed some changes from v.9. Most of them makes the early game more difficult, which may or may not be a good thing.

1. Like Gaias said, Carthage is stronger. Can't tell much about their naval power as I keep my ships inside ports most of the time. But I experience 2-3 times more amphibious attacks from them on Sicily. Now I have to fortify each Sicilian city with at least one legion/miles socius and one velites just to defend the city for one turn, which I didn't need to do in v.9.

2. Carthage does not offer generous terms any more when signing a truce after the 1st Punic war - i.e., no huge gold per turn or Spanish city.

I'm at 259BC, and Carthage was pretty easy. I'm playing on the Consul level and I got all the way to valentia. I didn't see one Sicilia invasion and by the time Carthage got to my borders, it was already too late.

And for the peace treaty I got Alba, 88 gold and 15 per turn. But then again it could be the difficulty.

 

[Gunner]

I think you mean 259BC don't you lovegun? I know the scenario is challenging and all, but really

 

[lovegun]

I'm at 259BC, and Carthage was pretty easy. I'm playing on the Consul level and I got all the way to valentia. I didn't see one Sicilia invasion and by the time Carthage got to my borders, it was already too late.

And for the peace treaty I got Alba, 88 gold and 15 per turn. But then again it could be the difficulty.

Hmm...interesting. Might be a random thing. I got 50+ gold per turn and a Spanish city from Carthage 3 times in v.0.9, but only less than 10 gold in v. 0.93 twice Carthagian amphious assults were pretty hard both in 1st and 2nd Punic wars.
Oh, and I always choose the consul level too. Can't handle anything more difficult than that...

 

[lovegun]

I think you mean 259BC don't you lovegun? I know the scenario is challenging and all, but really

Hehe my mistake. Of course it's 259 BC. Sorry.

 

[Gaias]

I just had this weird glitch when I connected the city Scallibus in Iberia, to a horse resource. Here the picture should illustrate this. Ever time I connected the horse resource to this city it would alway give me the Roma resource. It is strange because I just recently took over all of Iberia and had no roads connecting to the main ones. I just had a few my Velites were working on to make my invasion faster.

Its just funny because the Miles Celticus and Eques Celticus can only be built when you do not have the roma resource in the city. But everytime I connected to the horse resource via road, I would get the roma resource and all cities connected to that road would also get it. Just seems really weird considering...

 

[Gaias]

Should have specified that I was playing on Dictator level. So in hindsight it would explain their increase in navel power. I just had thought Pink had beefed up their navel power in v0.93.

I do agree with Fictionles about Carthage still being underwhelming in Iberia. With sufficient enough troops you can defeat them fairly easily. Maybe a decrease spawn time with their Celtic units could give them more of an edge in the early game. Also add to that it seems that as soon as you take Iberia and then launch the offensive on Carthage in Africa itself, they seem to lose all hope and do not give much of a fight. Just always seems strange to me.

 

[Soam]

3. I am not sure, but I think sea trade is now not allowed. Now I can't build the Circus Maximus wonder (requires slave)and faber (requires wheat) and get egyptian goods, which makes early happiness control harder...

Yeah I've noticed this too but what's struck me as strange is that I have a Portus Naves in Sicily and one in Carthago Novo as well as a clear land route all the way up iberia through the Narbonensis and over to Rome but I can't get any Wheat or Lumber from Sicily in Italy, although I have it in Spain. There is a slight gap in my cultural borders but I've never had that as an obstacle while playing before. I think the Mare Nostrum acted as a harbour but it went obsolete....
edit:
My bad there was a road missing

5. I think the enslavement rate of Roman military units has been somewhat reduced.

I could have sworn it was increased. Must be lucky.

 

[Fictionles]

Should have specified that I was playing on Dictator level. So in hindsight it would explain their increase in navel power. I just had thought Pink had beefed up their navel power in v0.93.

I do agree with Fictionles about Carthage still being underwhelming in Iberia. With sufficient enough troops you can defeat them fairly easily. Maybe a decrease spawn time with their Celtic units could give them more of an edge in the early game. Also add to that it seems that as soon as you take Iberia and then launch the offensive on Carthage in Africa itself, they seem to lose all hope and do not give much of a fight. Just always seems strange to me.

This is true. I haven't met much resistance at all in Africa.

Although historically once Scipio landed in Africa and took Utica, Carthage really didn't put up much a fight.

 

[gringoesteban]

Pink, did you change anything about the Persians in v0.9X vs v0.8X? The reason I am asking is that I am playing v0.922 and I rolled over the Persians with minimal effort about 170 AD. They only opposed me with a handful of cavalry units. In previous RFRE versions, the Persians routinely had stacks of 30 or 60 cavalry units wandering around the map, making their empire quite difficult to conquer. (I knocked out Pontus early on so I'm sure the Persians did not take lots of casualties fighting Pontic Exercitus Mithrates, or any other AI civ for that matter). I am playing at Consul level this time, and I played previous games at Dictator, so that might account for a few units of difference, but it seems like the Persian army is missing....

Well, about 40 units of Persian cavalry finally showed up, but by then I had conquered all non Persian Heartland cities. I guess the stupid AI had sent the Perisan cavalry down to wander around aimlessly in Yemen or southern Saudi Arabian desert. By the time they got to where the action was, the war was already over. To prevent this from happening, maybe the RFRE map could include a road from the southern wasteland up into modern day Iraq, so that if Persian units wind up in Yemen/Oman/UAE, they could head north quickly if a war breaks out. Or a different solution would be to place a mountain range to block movement to that non-essential part of the map. Neither solution is optimal from either a historic or geographic context, but we need to do something to address the AI's poor unit deployment strategy....