Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

[Meleagr]

1. the mod is fantastic. simply the best. last time i experienced these feelings playing LOTR by Harlan in Civ2 4 or 5 years ago. this one is even better.

2. pink, what's wrong with hoplites in the latest version? they are offensive now? after declaring war on Magna Greece i saw them leaving cities and desperately attacking my legions. though it was very easy to capture Syracusae and Bovianum in around 270 BC. is it on purpose?

p.s. sorry for my poor english.

 

[pinktilapia]

Wow, now, that's a big compliment thanks. Harlan's scenario for Civ2 was something. Sigh... LOTM, when will you be there....

Hoplites are checked both as offense and defense units, so the AI will use them sometime for attack and some other time for defense. This was changed a long time ago (patch 0.7?) to avoid a massive stockpiling of garrison in AI cities. It might be that now these greek cities are too easy to take, but if you just observed this in the lastest version, it must just a bunch of bad (good) luck.

 

[Meleagr]

well, I was just reading the beginning of the thread.
still after all those changes Bovianum is so weak. and historically samnite resistance was so powerful..

 

[jvoutsas]

I, too, had no problem conquering Bovianum and Syracusae. Both were garrisoned with six hoplites, and a few peltasts.

The reason they were such a pushover (at least in those cities), is that they sent out 3 hoplites immediately after I declared war, which I destroyed the next turn.

Like you said though, the other alternative (massive garrison of hoplites) might be more frustrating than it's worth.

 

[gringoesteban]

....Now, how many citizen should I make unhappy to wreck the Roman economy: 7, 8?! I afraid I am for nothing in the change of government you experienced. Interesting - I wish I would know why this happened! Anybody else go that in his/her game?

If the 5 unhappy people is what pushed me into civil war, then I guess that would be enough. But with the governors auto-managing citizen moods, people in unhappy cities should have been turned into entertainers, resulting in starvation, not civil disorder and then civil war. Very strange. Has anybody else been forced into civil war by the computer during RFRE?

Regarding wrecking the Roman economy, my treasury dropped from 30,000 in the early 3rd century to only 18,000 by the end of the third century. Between a couple civil wars, the crisis of the third century, and the expiration of the Forums and the Praetors, I was running a pretty big budget deficit for a while.

 

[Fictionles]

I remember in Civ2 if your capital city was in Civil Disorder for so many turns it would automatically plunge you into a Civil War. But with Auto manage moods turned on, it should've prevented that. I might have to try it.

 

[Fictionles]

I, too, had no problem conquering Bovianum and Syracusae. Both were garrisoned with six hoplites, and a few peltasts.

The reason they were such a pushover (at least in those cities), is that they sent out 3 hoplites immediately after I declared war, which I destroyed the next turn.

Like you said though, the other alternative (massive garrison of hoplites) might be more frustrating than it's worth.

Bovianum and Syracusae were a bit harder to conquer for me in .93 then it has been. For whatever reason every ballista I'd throw at them would fail. Although I saw less Samnites attack my internal cities in .93 then I had in other versions. Was the spawn rate modified?

 

[Gunner]

I usually conquer Bovianum and Syracuse right after Epirus. Wayy before ballistas. I don't think I even had to fight a singe Samnite in my current Dictator game. So they should probably be beefed up unless we want to keep it like that.

 

[Gaias]

I am wondering Pink if you should consider putting "praesidim" units into the more weaker states, like Western Greeks and Illyria.

 

[V. Soma]

Now that I have a new PC (designed for Civ IV - but hey, RFRE seems like it also deserved this Prescott CPU) - I finally started a game, v0.93, on consul level, with NO RELOAD...

Well, I want to play for the fun and excitement and to gain some experiment with RFRE, this is my first game
(I had one started in the past, but left it after some 20-30 turns).

So: I have played 10 turns tonight
(spent lots of time just reading the Civpedia)

Chronicle:

BC 265 (10)

I have won the war against Phyrrus and conquered Southern Italy
– with some losses, though.

War with Carthage I started immediately: had muddled results and achievement, there were cities won and lost on the islands. (Huhh, those attacks from Carth. ships, phew...) In the end, we have now set to peace – with the two cities won on Sicily, one on Sardinia and one on Korzika (got with treaty).

I have lost one of my starting legion-army… and many units…
Yet I think this treaty was a good deal, considering how the war went...

 

[Gunner]

I think when I first started playing I spent at least an hour reading the pedia and looking through the tech tree. I've read through all of the tech descriptions several times.

 

[pinktilapia]

V. Soma, keep updating the chronicles I am really keen to hear how a 'newbie' at RFRE manage the game at start. Most of us here have gone so many times through the game (at the last the BCs, AFAIC) that we may find it too easy while new players find it too way too hard.

Gaias, I came with the same conclusion reading the posts above. A few fixed garrison could do it for the greeks city states! They would be preplaced, not buildable.

So you guys want a stronger Samnite tribe uh... ok don't come crying after next patch is out (Fictionles: the spawn rate of the samnites peltast was left untouched in last patch)

Gringoesteban, considering your treasure, way too high, here are my conclusions:

- improvements maintainance increased (especially late republic and imperial age improvements)
- C3C will now cause 7 citizen unhappy instead of 5

 

[lovegun]

Aegyptus: Are the Ptolemies with Ptolemaios II. And they are Greeks! Greeks, who conquered and hold Egypt. The Ptolemies has the biggest army at 275 BC and mostly with Hoplites, large numbers simply mercenaries, and Light Cavalry. Why the Ptolemies don't have the chance to build up Hoplites, and only Greeks from Hellas can do? - Yes: The Ptolemies has at 275 BC the richest and most powerful empire.

It's funny you mentioned this because I am getting my butt kicked by a squadron of Egyptian hoplitai; look at the screenshot. As you can see, there are two more stacks like this coming to attack me.

They could've easily annihilated my entire eastern corps in Antiocha in one turn. Fortunately AI didn't attack if it was not certain that it could capture the city, which was when I fortified the city with two armies and 7 legions with full health. After a couple of reloading, I could figure this out and buy some time to sue for peace.

Well I've never faced this strong enemy back in v.92. I would definitely say the Egyptians got stronger in v 93. And they are going to get Antony's armies soon too. I don't know if I will be able to defeat them now

 

[lovegun]

I usually conquer Bovianum and Syracuse right after Epirus. Wayy before ballistas. I don't think I even had to fight a singe Samnite in my current Dictator game. So they should probably be beefed up unless we want to keep it like that.

I do the exactly same thing. Regardless of real history, it's a strategical mistake to have an enemy fortress in your heartland, and you really should get rid of it while they are still weak and your entire military force is in Italian peninsular. I'll probably do the same thing no matter how stronger Samnites become in the next version.

 

[pinktilapia]

wow, I have a quick check to make
Seriously, I am sure your huge empire can somewhat overcome this. Bring in the Gauls' legions! (and cross the fingers the Parthians stay asleep)
Good luck, let us know how it goes.

 

[Gaias]

So you guys want a stronger Samnite tribe uh... ok don't come crying after next patch is out (Fictionles: the spawn rate of the samnites peltast was left untouched in last patch)

You know the funny this is, this was one of my suggestions on the first post I made here. I had come to the conclusion that the samnites where not much of a "thorn" in Roma's side at their current spawn rate. I for one look forward to this implimentation.

1. Peltastes Samnis wonder in the city Bovianum should have its respawn set from 8 to 4. Considering that the description says they are "a thorn in the Roman's side", they barely made a dent to me in my game. Having them at an increased rate should make you consider a more aggressive home defense.

 

[Fictionles]

@lovegun
Perhaps a different opening move is in order for Aegyptus. I've seen Aegytian stacks 25 units deep with still another 6 or 7 left waiting to bump off. Once I changed my tactics it shouldn't be much of a problem.

 

[Gunner]

Wow lovegun, you are doing extremely well for 101 BC. What level are you playing at?

The way I play the game its really just a race against time to conquer an area before it becomes too strong (usually because of its super unit). I was planning on going after Pontus next, but that screenshot may make me want to hit Egypt first. Choices choices choices.

Nate1976 just made a wonder splash for the Bible. Do you think we could use it? Here's the link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3004143&posted=1#post3004143

 

[lovegun]

Wow lovegun, you are doing extremely well for 101 BC. What level are you playing at?

The way I play the game its really just a race against time to conquer an area before it becomes too strong (usually because of its super unit). I was planning on going after Pontus next, but that screenshot may make me want to hit Egypt first. Choices choices choices.

Thanks, Gunner. I am playing at Consul level.
My playing style is the same as you. I'd still advise to attack Pontus first, since they will accumulate Armeniacus Bellator (8,4,2) which is much bigger pain than Egyptian Hoplitai. Pontus is probably the strongest (conquerable) enemy only next to Persia; in my v.92 game I had to buy some of their cities to defeat them. Fortunately this time they were seriously weakened by Persian attacks.

As for my war with the Egyptians, I could finally defeat their main force by a mean diplomatic trick I signed a peace treaty with them, waited for their unit to retreat, and let my units heal. Then I demanded Cleopatra to remove her remaining troops from my territory or declare war. (AI usually declares war when they have strong military force nearby) This way I could restart the war without taking the reputation hit and wipe out scattered Egyptian units. Now the conquest of Egypt is only matter of time, although I can see they almost completed at least one Antony's army...

In retrospect, I shouldn't have let the Egyptians sneak up to my city. I thought they were going after Syria or Persia. Well I had been buying Egyptian goods for a high price for a long time, and didn't expect them to suddenly attack me.

 

[Meleagr]

I’m in 250 BC. Found that the beginning is not a problem for a mediocre player. Conquered Epirus in 3 turns. Then captured Syracusae and Bovianum, destroyed the stack of hoplites near Genua and since my army was already there – declared war on Cisalpines. Legios were injured because of the greeks but I quickly moved Consulars from Sicily due to the huge road benefit. Moving troops very carefully I didn’t give any chance of attack to bellators. With a pack of velites I destroyed the walls in Genua in order to kill the archer with a huge HP and to capture this useless town. Few turns later Consular Legions were sent to Massilia by boat and didn’t have problems to conquer the rest of the Magna Greece. The aim was to get the luxuries near Narbo but WHAT A PAIN – you can NOT trade with portus in this version!! The whole risky war was about nothing.

Mare Nostrum requires an elite navy now. So I did have a motivation for destroying pirates by myself. Switching production from fabrica in Croton helped - I got this wonder and the only chance to upgrade my ships. Still Carthagenians seem to be very peaceful. Their troops don’t cross my territory (as it was in 0.92) and since I moved 5 legios to Messana and Siracuse their navy also keeps away from my borders. So I had some time to capture the rest of Cesalpines using only 4 legios, a pack of velites and a pack of militia (lost 4 of them). Demanding tributes for peace treaties with eastern greeks I got some money to buy a couple of veteran quinqiremes.

So without losing a single legio i enlarged my territorry significantly, improved my naval force and already moved Consulars to Spain to prevent Hamilcar. And for now I have a huge army, powerful navy and no threat in Italy. I feel ready for the Punic war and Carthage avoids any conflict. All that is not historically acurate, is it?

Pink, AFAIK Hamilcar comanded Punic armies in Sicily during the first war. In Spain he fought Iberians (not Romans) and died there sieging one of the cities. Moreover you have already granted Hispalis and Valencia to Carthage - Hamilcar has nothing to do in Spain. IMHO, Carthage would be more aggressive if you put Hamilcar in Sicily. It will be more realistic and make players hold Consulars in Messana keeping peace with Cesalpines.