Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

[ImhotepII]

hm maybe i can help soma, while checking through the editor i found the constantinopolis wonder enabels to build spaceship parts.

 

[V. Soma]

hm maybe i can help soma, while checking through the editor i found the constantinopolis wonder enabels to build spaceship parts.

So I don't need to conquer Africa???

 

[V. Soma]

Each of the cities required for the spaceship have their own resource. For example, Carthage, Carthago Nova, Pontus, Ephesus, Byzantium, Jersaulem. Some are already available on the map, but the rest won't be available until you're ready to build the spaceship.

Oh, now I see - thanks

 

[Asclepius]

Wow! This thread has a life of its own. I pop out for a few weeks and by the time I get back 20 odd pages have passed by! I'm looking forward to playing this again when the nights start getting darker! Kudos Pink!

I noticed someone was trying to play this mod with a German version of Civ. There are tools available which allow French and German language versions to work with standard English version scenarios:
German Civ tool
French Civ tool

 

[ImhotepII]

since i`ve been playing the whole night i came upon some thoughts

my first try to the game at consul level: in (..) the real historical date

273 capured Croton then Tarentum kicked Phyrrus out. (272)
262 R reserched first punic war (264-241)
261 captured lilybaeum (sicilia 1.colony 241)
carthage woun`t give me a peace treaty so i had to go on to the islands..
261 captured Aleria (238)
256 captured olbia (238)
252 captured Caralis (238)
Carthage signed peace giving me slaves and 5g/t (without slaves could have taken 25g/t, but i intended on the circus maximus
248 Mare nosturm at neaples
249 R civil engeneering
248 for getting complete control of Italia (bovianum) i declared war on magna Graecia, not knowing those damn hoplites.....
since syracuse has fine timber... and strategic a must..
247 captured syracusae (212)
242 Bovianum after many losses....
magna graecia signed peace 15g/t
237 R Praetor
234 pharus at croton
329 changed cicus maximus to building praetor
229 war against lil gallia (round 222 till 201)
228 captured Ravenna
227 captured Genua
225 R Slavery
224 captured Mediolanum
211 R second punic war (218-201)
211 Iperium Scipionis at lilybaeum

208:
building the pantheon at roma (still12truns)
bye now i`ve got fabricas and templum in most cities, even some granarys, marketplaces and scools....
since around 225 i`m running low on money for building up the hispalis army, but will be ok had stored some 1300gold for the war.
the mare nostrum was a great help, for the corvus, so i was able to concentrate on land forces, bad its obsolent for the second punic war...

now i`m on my way to hispalis... to really meet cartagia.



some ideas that came to my mind....

had anyone ever the idea of adjusting the timeline? ( if so i apologize for brining this up ) so it may fit historical.
what i mean is : set for exp. the years 218 til 201 not 1 year per turn but maybe 2 or even 3, if i rember right this schould be possible...

it would give the 2nd punic war a way better timewindow....
for actually during that time you should be fighting carthage and keltia as well as macedonia in illyricum.
and you are suposed to counquer all carthagian cities in hispalis.

same could be done at 149 till 146 at the last punic war , when capturing carthage itsself.

i realy think this would adjust gameplay, for you`d have more time for peace periods.
and conquering all of carthage could be acomplished within acurate time (till146BC) and the necessary Peace treaties to go on magna Graecia illirya and the gallia cisalpina during these times....

of course... the timeline inventions would have to be modiefied for the "extended wartimes" as well as the war-unhappieness.....
maybe have extra timeline invention just dating the punic wars, the macedonian wars, gallic war, civil war.....

just an idea.....

edit: i forgot.....

maye bovianum should be taken from magna graecia and given to Epirus...
historical bovianum is samnites, was captured around 307BC, and ordered to follw rom. since they were quite revolting the idea of a free bovianum is great, but having to declare war on magna graecia so early is quite a shame..the hoplites are quite strong..and you would have to conquer syracusae as well just to have a worthy war. and syracusae should be taken round 212 in line with the second punic war.



and how the hell do i get past those carthagian exeritus barcae?!
i`m triening to get valentia edi.. and there are 3 of them!!! argh

 

[woodelf]

Wow, that's quite a marathon of playing! Keep up the good gaming.

 

[Fictionles]

You don't "have" to declare war on Magna Graecia that early. You can to eliminate the early threat, but its really optional. I usually wait until around 230BC to take over Magna Grecia.

I know there was some early posts on the subject already; its been really difficult to emulate Rome's expansion in the early game. Its almost impossible to duplicate it where it matches up within the historical context by basing it on troop movements alone. Its also hard to control how the AI will respond as well, which I think also makes the games interesting since it doesn't follow history precisely.

I know I've found from all the times I've played to establish two fronts early on and then alternate the battles between them (maybe occasionally fighting two wars at once, or having them overlap where one side is close to a peace treaty when the other is just starting up). Only then was I able to get to Egypt by 30BC.

 

[Gunner]

Whoohoo!!! I'm done animating the Late Legion. I'm starting to render the stuff now. If everything goes as planned I should be able to post it sometime tommorow.

 

[pinktilapia]

@Meleagr

I have indeed removed the production bonus of the catasta (slave market), but it allow you to build precious improvements. E.g. the latifundia is now great, since it boost trade while not causing unhappiness. I can make the catasta spawn slaves, but at which rate? Since there can be so many, it should be at a very low frequency: 1/20t? Would that do it?

@Traianus

I will take a peek at these Pounder's PCX! Make sure you build the limes wonders, in order to get these fort engineers who can quickly build the limes

@V.Soma

For advanced espionage mission, you will need to research intelligence, very late in game (a 'byzantine' tech) and build the Claustrum Speculatoris.

Carthage will stockpile ships if you allow it to survive beyond 200BC. As said before, you better take her early on, when you Corvus equipped ships can beat her still medium-sized fleet.

Glad you enjoy these raiders (praedators). Try the 125BC map to have a big surprise with these folks

Plan where you put your limes cautiosuly, rivers defend better than hills in RFRE, making the Rhine and Danube the best natural frontier you can get! The Alps, with their small passes, are an excellent second line defense (coz once the Barbarian have crossed them, you are history )

Read the pedia: Concepts: Victory Conditions, or the readme attached with the mod for details about the 'spaceship'.

@Gringo

I know the issue of building getting obsolete and still costing maintenance I have tried to limit this by removing/reducing the maintance cost of most building that will once expire... Other than removing the cost, I see no way around it. Certainly, the fact culture remains must be linked with the flag "preserve culture on capture". Let me know, by all means, how the invasions go in your current game.

@Ascelpius

Wait for the next Biq before starting a new game, give me until Monday (if you already started, well never mind ) Thanks for pointing out the tools, I will put these links in the front page.

@Woodelf

Praesidum cost no support, so the more you have the better for your defense. yet keep in mind they cost population and a significant amount of shields, so they will seriously slow down small cities growth. Since they are not the best defense too, I usually keep a mobile offensive force (a couple of legion, one eques) in recently conquered area for early defense, with velites (build in large Italian cities) to first garrison the cities there.

@ Imphotep

Your game seems to be going fine. There was many comments already on altering the time scale early on (too few turns at start, too many at the end), but sorry, it is too much work to modify the thing again. I don't want to go through this again. yet, laziness

You are not supposed to take Bovianum early on: they have a defense bonus of 100% (wonder) +40% (hill) + 50% (wall). You are supposed to take it much later, by the times of Sulla. Of course, ultimately, it is up to each player's preference.

The exercitus Barcae represent Hannibal and his troops. Nobody said it will be easy . Get Scipio, and invade Spain ASAP.

@Gunner
Good good! So what will be your next unit ? What about some Goths!

 

[Meleagr]

@Meleagr

I have indeed removed the production bonus of the catasta (slave market), but it allow you to build precious improvements. E.g. the latifundia is now great, since it boost trade while not causing unhappiness. I can make the catasta spawn slaves, but at which rate? Since there can be so many, it should be at a very low frequency: 1/20t? Would that do it?

well, i think a reasonable player should not build any catasta.
yes, you get latifundia. +10 gpt in Roma, +4-6 in other big cities.
but, pollution is a pain. it wastes production and sometimes trade also. plus supporting all the legions to clean it everytime.

you are to spend a lot of time, shields and population to create troubles for yourself and your budget.

i still think the idea with revolts is brilliant. and i'm ok to deal with some disadvantage. but a simple calculation says it is not reasonable.

more bonuses from those buildings can make sense. slave-producing in catasta is both realistic and attractive. 20 turns seems ok. need to test it.

p.s. and, please, give cleaning ability to velites.

 

[woodelf]

Not much time for playing last night unfortunately, but did I have action when I played!

After disposing of the Illyrians I concentrated on moving all of my legions, armies, and velites back towards Carthage. They had grown too long unchecked and I figured the sooner the better. Well, you know what they say about the best laid plans.....

207BC - Germania attacks! I never saw this one coming. Sure they had been meandering about, but when they attacked Savaria my pants were down. Luckily it was disorganized and my 2 Velites and 1 Praesidium repelled the 2 attackers with 1 lone Velite left. Unfortunately 10 more of the buggers were 2 tiles or less away.... I interrupted all of my troop movements and stripped ever city nearby to it's bare minimum and sent 10-12 units to Savaria. There was no way I could let those Heathens think I'd let them take anything from Rome. Not a good example to be setting for the rest of them!

206BC - Cathage demands 53gp. Decisions, decisions. I had 8 units in Syracuse waiting for an opportunity for Lilybaeum, but Torraco, which, bordered on Carthaginian lands, was just getting reinforced. Plus the damned Germans were going to tie up several legions.... I decline their demands and get WAR with Carthage. 3 Exercitus Barcae, several equines, and countless other baddies pour over my border in Torraco, where I have 3 Legions, 1 army, 2 ballista, 1 horse, and no Velites or Praesidium. Ugly isn't the right word.... Still, several units were mobilized and would arrive soon, but soon enough?

205BC - Germans repelled and then counterattacked at Savaria. Several Velites die valiantly, but the arriving Legions and lone army completely turn the tide. After a couple of more years I expect their will to take on Rome will diminish. In Torraco I soften up one Barcae with Ballista and take it out with my army! 2 Legions give their life to force another to retreat. I finished it off with an equi (sp). Oddly, they never attacked, but tried to go around the city with their cavalry and foot units. Replacing the 2 dead Barcae is a Hanicar (sp) Barcae! Crap.

204BC - Lilybaeum captured with no losses. Several enemy ships burned in the harbor. Nearer to Roma, units launched toward Aleria. Ballista and arriving Velites pelt the Carthiginian troops around Torraco and my wounded army and equi finish off their wounded. Still no real attack....

202BC - Aleria falls. A group of Carthaginian cavalry try to get between Torraco and the next city up, but arriving Legions and Velites slaughter them happily. The Hanicar Barcae gets carved up and slowly Carthage loses her edge, but Rome is no position to counterattack.

201BC - Carales falls, but having to defend my captured cities coupled with minimal losses means my advance in the islands is done. I pound away near Torraco inflicting death where I can and then extend an olive branch to the still dangerous foe. They accept peace and give me 20gp/turn!

With that I had to go to bed. But what a rush! I thought I was done for, but Carthage had odd strategies and seemed intent on cutting off Torraco and not just obliterating it. Now I need lots more Legions and to counterattack the Germans to get them off my northern flank for a while.

 

[V. Soma]

Chronicle:

AD 25
There is Persecutiones Christianorum in Capua.
Ecclesias are building.

AD 31
The Seleucids destroyed the Galatians. Now I know about these nations...

AD 39
Circus Maximus is built in Rome.

After Commerce we learn Grand Architecture.

AD 55
Finally we land in Africa and launch an assault on Carthage.
We could not do it at Cartenna, since Hannibal would not let us have the initiative to attack
(he orders my army out at once we enter Carthage’s homeland),
so we sneak in from the west end, where there are no roads to help the defenders...

After we capture Siga, Carthage counterattacks with 45 (!) units...
Now, we have about 20...
Our tactic is to keep distance from the horses as much as we can

AD 63
After causing significant losses to Carthage: some 20-30 units killed while we lost 5,
We agree to a peace and get Cartenna, too!

 

[lovegun]

Check out this game: Nemesis of the Roman Empire
http://www.enlight.com/nemesis/
A real-time strategy game on Punic Wars. It looks pretty interesting but I probably won't play it since I don't like real-time games.

 

[Gunner]

Aggh! An RTS in a Civ forum! What are you doing? That can't be allowed.

Better watch out, the mods will get you

 

[pinktilapia]

Well, it certainly does look good
Woodelf, if even the Barcae refuse to attack weakly defended cities, I surrender in trying to make the AI behave logically. Ah Civ
V.Soma, which tactics did you use to impose such a high losses to Carthage while loosing so few troops (beware, I will use this to make such exploits less likely )

 

[lovegun]

AD 25
There is Persecutiones Christianorum in Capua.
Ecclesias are building.

Uh-oh I am afraid you made the same mistake I had made in my v.92 game. You don't need the "Christian Persecutions" wonder till you are close to get the "Conversion of Constantine" tech. The only advantage of the wonder is that it enables you to build ecclesia, which you get for free in all cities when you research the Conversion of Constantine and build "the Edict of Milan" wonder.
Till the Christian Persecution goes obsolete with the Conversion of Constantine, you'll have to put up with one more unhappy citizen in every city and 0 culture in many cities. Culture does matter in border cities. And you probably won't be able to build enough cultural improvements in those cities to overcome the -2 culture effect from the wonder, since they are likely to be newly conquered ones.

 

[Gunner]

My tactic for Carthage is to take Spain before it starts churning out Barcae. I also stack ballistas and velites and weaken them before I attack. (The velites either bombard or do a retreat attack. Who cares if they die anyway?)

Ok, the unit really should be done tommorow. Rendering really takes a long time, especially when you realize you made a mistake twice so you end up rendering everything 3 times. I've finished and rendered Default, Run, and Fortify. Death is rendering now and I should get Attack rendered tommorow. I'm not sure if I'll do a victory animation, probably not. I can't wait to finish because then I'll be able to start playing my game again.

 

[Gaias]

I get the feeling that people are playing this mod with the intent of winning it under normal CivIII standards. To play RFRE, one must forgo the "winning" strategies that one has developed over the course of their CivIII playing experience, and enjoy the unique challenge that RFRE brings to the CivIII mod world. Most of the wonders in RFRE are not very advantageous and would downright stupid to build in a normal CivIII game. They are their to add flavor and unique challenge to an already and evergrowing challengeless game. One has to arbitrarily increase the difficult by giving the AI a boost in all aspects of the game to make the game more of a challenge. RFRE does not have to do this. The challenge comes from doing things one would not do in a normal CivIII game. It makes one second guess a well proven strategy, or take alternative route one would have never guess would be as effective. To simply put, play the game not to "win" but to experience history in the CivIII making.

 

[Soam]

The problem is that I never manage to have the proper defenses in place in time for the big invasions. I'm too busy trying to fight dacia or Pontus or Iberia or Persia.
Re: Irrigation. I love Pounder's Fitted Irrigation. It has little farmhouses and hedgerows and he did a lot of work on eliminating the effect you mentioned.

Yeah I know what you mean. In v0.92 I had tons of cities pumping out Miles Allarius Gallicus to try and keep up with Germania to keep them from attacking. The AI doesn't seem to care how crappy your units are but how much attack they have all together. Good old AI has some things you can rely on. Granted it gets a struggle. I had over 400 of them and my advisor still said Germania was larger then me. With the latest patch I've decided to not worry about keeping a high population and to never let a city stay at it's max pop by always having it to make a unit if it hits 10 or 6. Since Praesidium don't cost upkeep you can make tons of them in cities that can manage to produce them, and for no cost to you.

I don't suppose you have a link to that irrigation do you? I also liked the irrigation that Rhyes uses in his mod. I'll have to try it with RFRE.

 

[V. Soma]

My tactics with Carthage.

I landed in the far west, where there were NO roads to connect Siga to the other C. cities.
Then I attacked and captured the city, while bombing the units one tile behind with my ships.

Then in the next round I RETREATED, so horses would not reach me in one turn but come next to me - I kill most of them.

Then in the third round I leave the field by ships...