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Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

  1. gringoesteban

    gringoesteban Senior Consul

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    The far northern frontier withheld the first onslaught, but hordes of Germans continue to press the weakening Roman defenses. Scythian units can be seen harrassing cities deep inside Gaul. All hope is lost....
     

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  2. gringoesteban

    gringoesteban Senior Consul

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    It didn't do me much good, but I had eight armies in 585AD:
    1 Legio Consular
    2 Legio Caesar
    3 Legio Trajan
    2 Legio Bellisarius

    During my game, I try to plan my tech research so that the Army producing Wonders have time to crank out an extra army. For example, the Wonder that creates Legio Bellisarius goes obsolete with Heraclius' Reform, so I made sure to research the optional tech Intelligence prior to researching Heraclius' Reform. That gave me an extra 12 turns and one extra army. Earlier in the timeline, the Philosophy & Poetry tech and Water Milling tech can also be used in this manner as placeholders to slowdown Wonder expiration. Since those techs take 12 turns to research, you end up with an "extra" army.
     
  3. V. Soma

    V. Soma long time civ fan

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    Uhh, those Huns are really monstrous... what am I to face?
    anyway,

    NEW CHRONICLE:

    BC 224-218
    The war against the Western Greeks was unexpectedly tough,
    But in the end we took what we wanted, and now we have an all red Italian penninsula,
    Plus a whole, nice looking south Mediterranean Sea coast.
    We are next to prepare the final assault on Carthage.

    BC 210-191
    Second Punic War
    Again with many allies, Numidia included.
    I land at Cartenna with two Consularis army and 4 legions,
    And at Utica with 19 units, leader is Scipio... we shall see!

    Cartenna and Utica is captured in the first turn.
    My navy is destroyed by Carthage – but it was expected, my 3 cumbas could escape back home, though!
    Now, what will be the strenght of the counterattack at Utica?
    Will Numidia be of any deteriorating help?

    No real counterattack from Carthage!
    In the battle near Cirta we kill Xanthipus...
    Numidia does not do much, but, hell, I am strong!

    In BC 199 we start siege of Carthago:
    We have to refresh troops, but in the second wave we capture the famous city in BC 192!

    We make peace with Carthage in the next turn,
    she is left with the islands of Balears, the city of Palma.
    In the treaty we got Leptis Magna for free...



    Now, Rome is almost ready with the wonder Praetor,
    and will begin Circus Maximus, roads connect the needed slaves.

    A nice sized army is ready in the north to begin conquering of Illyria,
    with the second Scipio army as leader...
     

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  4. V. Soma

    V. Soma long time civ fan

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    BC 190-182
    Praetorium is given to every city.
    We attack Illyria.
    Conquering the Eastern shores of the Adriatic Sea was like routine for my armies,
    Who were enjoying support of new ballistas. War with Illyra is over pretty fast.
     
  5. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    Excellent idea, that will be included in next patch, and also for Gothia, Pictii and the Vandals! These barbarians will start to pile these A99 high HP unit from the 3rd century onward, making them more and more agressive with time.

    Done, I have halved the cost of the Pictii (rather than adding resources), and increased their move rate. I have added resources for the "Vandal" city Thevesta.

    Ok, #3 is done, no more Parthians/Persians in deserts. I have also removed the possibility to do any propaganda with civ under a hostile monarchy government. Propaganda is now only possible with Greek states, and the few amiable monarchies around (Bithynia, Nabatea, Pergamum). Since you shouldn't be so rich in the "middle game" (=early imperial time ;)), you won't miss it.

    With no propaganda possibl;e, the heartland defense is now a massive 900%. Good luck, Alexander-alikes!

    Sounds fine, except for the massive number of merc. legion... I wish we could have different level of maintenance rather than just no or yes :(
    Glad to hear this is not enough for resisting the barb. invasions.


    With a net income of +500 gold/turn also, this is just too much, considering we are in the 6th century with many tax improvement already obsolete. It seems I will have to increase tech cost not only in the early-midde empire period but also during the "decline" period...

    So my guess is that the great invasions wonders spawn troops (incursator, Eques loricatus) too fast? Should 1 per 4 turns become 1 per 6 turns?

    Ok, good point (BTW, when putting down the stat, I wanted flash hunnic invasions, and you actually got the huns in Gaul for a remake of the Catalaunic fields :)) I will give them M4, ignore all terrain costs, but no longer TATAR.

    Can be done, but is there a good reason behind? That unit is already great.l

    That's probably it!

    :mischief: I really wish to close that chapter for once. So what about a big poll (can I add a poll to this thread and then remove it later on?). Hrafnkell is no longer around (or lurking?) but I know he would happily agree with removing that bombard factor. My rationale behind is that it 1) adds to the interest of having a fleet and controlling the seas, 2) nicely represents the capacity of boats to land and raid nearby cost, 3) gives some representation of boat attack on harbors, catching the enemy fleet vulnerable and blockade, 4) gives pack of ships an advantage when defending, 5) allows small fast boats to hit-and-run, 6) uh, no 6 :lol:

    Yep, I might change it, but not before 1.0

    I got the same problem when testing with the old video (which was the empty video from WH2 to avoid seeing a spaceship launch). Didi you test it with the new video? And when buidling the parts of the Byzantine Legacy, did you see the maps coming in?

    Ultimately, before 1.0, I guess I will have to do something about this too.
     
  6. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    About the Scipio leadership

    Seeing all the problems the new sea trade setting are causing, the Scipio wonder will no longer require wheat at all. Sorry for the trouble, dear beta-testers :)

    Spanish version
    Can't help much! But if you got it working by modifying files, let me know, I may post these on the front post. Good luck!

    @Woodelf: attack Germania :eek: Can't wait to hear how it goes. So you already got Gallia right? Was it too easy? Is Gaul to weak by 100-50BC?

    @Winterfell
    Try the 125BC map if you are tired slaugthering Phoenicians... All nations should be less likely to be destroyed in next patch as most cities will have an immobile garrison of 4 praesidium (including Carthage, I hope you will really need Scipio to get in Spain this time!).

    @Gringo

    I love the screenshots :Thanks: Let me know what you think about the number of barbarians. Too much or just good? Will you play this game until Rome fall?

    @V. Soma

    The dreaded Carthaginians still have the balearic slingers. Be careful ;) Actually, it may just bring them broke :lol:
     
  7. V. Soma

    V. Soma long time civ fan

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    Pink, I have a simple question:

    Don't you think the velite unit is too strong?
    Maybe it could have an attack of 4 instead of 5?
     
  8. gringoesteban

    gringoesteban Senior Consul

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    I liked the Velite better way back in v0.6 when it was only A4 but had no pop cost.
     
  9. woodelf

    woodelf Bard

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    Bugger, it looks like I'll be starting over. I have a habit of not saving very often and we had a power outage. No biggie normally except my daughter started a Mythara game before I could load an autosave. :(

    I could go back to 107BC, but since I did things so horribly out of sequence I figure I'll just restart eventually.
     
  10. Meleagr

    Meleagr Chieftain

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    make it A2 - i don't care. I have 100+ velites in 15-unit-stacks and keep them for road-building ONLY. BTW, they are great road-builders if used in masses.
     
  11. Fictionles

    Fictionles Chieftain

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    I was wondering for those who are making it to the barbarian invasions, how soon in your campaign did you conquer the Caucasians? I started an attack around 80BC and just got completely repelled. Ballistas were worthless trying to shell Pontus, and I saw Velite after Velite get slaughtered just trying to knock off their special unit (For all the talk about the Velites being too strong again, try taking on Mithradates with just a stack of them). I figured if I took on Pontus early, I wouldn't have to worry about them being a strong force later in the game. Boy was I wrong!

    Any suggestions?
     
  12. AUGUSTUSAM

    AUGUSTUSAM Chieftain

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    I have not yet played the scenario - but will be soon! Looks great! I saw on a previous post a request for a Dacian UU - the falx swordsman - not sure(I did not see one)if anyone replied. Here is the link to the unit if you want to add it:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=74469

    This also may have been presented - hard to remember 82 pages of posts!

    For Parthia: They were a Fuedal type society where the King had his small army but relied heavily on his Nobles in order to form a larger one. Is Parthia fuedal in the game? Is it possible or is it done where Parthian's can draft citizens(i.e the Nobles levying troops) but make the upkeep very high so the computer A/I would be forced to disband these units after a short time? Or even make their powerful heavy cavalry units with a high upkeep cost, limiting their numbers. This would limit Parthian incursions. However I said I had not playd yet so maybe these are not issues!
     
  13. gringoesteban

    gringoesteban Senior Consul

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    The Merc Legions were quickly overrun by the Scythians and Germans, as shown in my screenshots. The fact that many of those units had been fortified inside on-a-hill-and-behind-a-river Limes did not make any difference. Although 475 Merc Legions may sound like a lot, remember they are deployed all over the map -- in the Hadrian Wall city, along the Persian border, in North Africa, and along the entire length of the northern frontier. I had each individual Limes defended by roughly 6 Merc Legions. I had a second line of defense in the mountain passes with about 4 Merc Legions each. But as my screenshots show, that was barely a speed bump to the barbarians hordes. I could have had 15 Merc Legions in every Lime and the result would have been the same....

    On a side note, I set the AI to "Less Aggressive" and that might have been part of the reason the Germans and Scythians did not attack me later in the game.

    I acknowledge that the real Roman Empire ultimately fell, and the Player should expect to lose lots of territory the the barbarian migrations in the later stages of RFRE. That being said, The Crisis of the Third Century, where I had set the German unit spawn rate to 1/3, was a challenge, but I was well prepared and with good unit deployment I held my frontier (just barely, and with huge casualties!) In contrast, the Hunnic/German attack in 590AD was so overwhelming that it was not even fun to play.

    A big part of my collapse had to do with the Scythian unit move rate (i.e. treat all terrain as roads or "TATAR"). Changing the Copie Attilae to M4 ignore hills and ignore forests will help a lot.

    => Don't forget to also change the move rate for the Eques Hunnus Sagittifer. They should be M2 ignore hills and ignore forests, NOT TATAR. Since the Eque Hunnus Sagittifer can blitz, please don't give them M3, or alternatively you could give them M3 but take away the blitz.

    => On the topic of Eques Hunnus Sagittifer, they should enslave Sarmaticus Cataphratcus rather than enslaving another Eques Hunnus Sagittifer. I don't know if it will make much difference, but such a powerful unit enslaving another one just like it makes the Huns unstoppable. Remember that the Romans will be counter attacking with Miles Alarius Germancius that only have A8 and +0 HP, so the Hun units will win a good percentage of the combat, even when they are on the defensive....

    => How about changing the Merc Legio stats to A5/D7 (from A6/D6) and raising the shield cost to 110 (from 100). This would cut down the number of Merc Legions but at the same time make them more worthwhile. As it stands now, the Merc Legions get overrun so quickly that I question whether it is even worth the effort to build them in the first place.

    I captured four Persian Heartland cities, and I also built six new cities at various spots on the map near resources, so my income might be a little higher than the standard. Also, in retrospect, I should have built a lot more cavalry and catapults and a lot fewer Legio Mercs. That would have driven extra support cost, with a resulting hit to my Treasury. I built the Legio Mercs because they were "free", and that decision came back to haunt me big time. The bottom line is that you shouldn't get too aggressive on hurting the Roman economy because a well prepared player will need a several hundred catapults and a couple hundred cavalry to have any chance of survival.

    The Germans had piles of each unit (I itemized the AI offensive units in a prior post) so I guess based on that 1/6 should work. My German border held for about 4 turns after I declared war on Germany in the late 6th Century AD, but on the 5th turn after the start of the war, my entire northern frontier would have collapsed.

    If that's how you feel, then we don't need a poll. You are entitled to some creative license since you are the Maker of RFRE. Leave the ship bombard on. (Plus, it makes a big difference in the 275BC BIQ because there is so much pirate and Carthaginian naval activity).

    No, I played v0.922

    Nothing popped up automatically, but I did not go to any advisor screen and look for spaceship completion.
     
  14. gringoesteban

    gringoesteban Senior Consul

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    The Stratiotes unit was unable to attack units inside cities. Also, it was unable to capture AI Settler units. The Stratiotes could move into the same square as a Settler and sit on top of it, with both the Roman Stratiotes and the AI Setter occupying the same square. Is this intentional? (Note that the Stratiotes could capture AI worker units with no problems).
     
  15. jvoutsas

    jvoutsas Chieftain

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    The only problem I have with naval bombardment is the increase in the length of the AI turn. Watching 40 ships bombard Messana every turn gets a little repetitive.

    It's also practically impossible to keep any sort of fleet in your sicilian harbor(s), making the movement of Legio Consularis and Legio Scipionis between the islands and the mainland tedious. Personally, I feel that ships in port should be relatively safe from the enemy, at least during this period of history.

    On an side note, I remember a time (version 8 or something) when I could build the Corvus. Why can I no longer build them? The Roman Fleet of the Punic Wars was a historical fact. Having Roman control of the seas depend solely on having an elite naval unit is annoying and too random.

    I see a few solutions to this problem...
    1) Let us build Corvus again so we can fight the Carthiginian's fleet on the high seas, as opposed to destroying it entirely when taking ports (or if it currently can be built but only with fine timber, remove that requirement, as the romans have no access to fine timber until Magna Graecia, Illyria, or Hispania is conquered).
    2) Remove the requirement for fine timber from the Triremis Summa, giving Rome a fighting chance if she gets no elite naval unit early on.
    3) Remove the elite naval unit requirement from the Mare Nostrum wonder, and replace it with something else (perhaps a Sicilia resource under Lilybeaum would help to simulate the importance of Sicily in the first punic war, when Rome stole Carthiginian ships, and started assembling her own fleet).

    And last but not least, I think taking away the requirement for wheat for the Legio Scipionis is a mistake. It adds to the flavor, and, in addition to the Sicilia resource required for the Mare Nostrum, would be one more reason for attacking Lilybeaum early in the first punic war. IIRC, that would be quite historically accurate. Perhaps adding a "Great Harbor" (air trade) to Lilybeaum would help with getting wheat and Sicilia to the mainland.

    Just a few thoughts. Thanks for your time.

    Edit: Allowing early trade with Aegyptus would also help solve the wheat problem, and give us back our early egyptian goods. I'm not really sure how this could be done without decreasing the importance of Roma's port of Ostia.
    Giving the player access to a Great Harbor from the beginning would probably make many players not bother with Ostia, and that's not what we want. Perhaps having Ostia dramatically increase food (+2-+3) in coastal squares would be a good idea, and help symbolize Roma's huge population by 0 A.D.

    Edit 2: After reading the civilopedia entry on Ostia, I don't think adding the food bonus would be necessary, as it would still be worthwhile to build even with another great harbor in southern Italia. Placing a great harbor in Tarentum or the city right on the tip of the boot (can't think of the name right now) would force the player to at least conquer the city before getting access to egyptian wheat and goods. Just another idea.
     
  16. V. Soma

    V. Soma long time civ fan

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    NEW CHRONICLES:

    BC 180
    Rome has Portus Ostiae.

    BC 178-161
    War against the Antigonids.
    To take Thessalonika was two turns...
    We have the Pantheon – a great help to please my people.
    The Antagonids are history...

    BC 155
    We have Marius’ Reform and Circus Maximus.
    People are happy, no need for luxury expenses from the treasury.
     

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  17. Salamandre

    Salamandre King

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    @Pink

    First, your mod is Fantastic, and I am at my 10th game with it(after discovering all the exploits which bothered you :lol: ) , but:


    I suggest you ask SAVES from players before changing anything in the mod. In fact, I am sure 99% of players around had modded the mod to tweak it so any suggestions can be false... I am still dreaming how Gringoesteban pilled so huge army with increased upkeep from the last update. I was unable to have more than 35 legios with republic(6gpt/unit) so game was blocked. Not that its hard to conquer but I really cant build in the update(-played the 225bc-)
    and I was still far away from reaching the first "no support unit" (some 50 turns)-except velites.

    No corvus is a pain, it was so nice to have a better navy before. Praesidium cant sail in corvus anymore, is this intentional? I like a strategy game (move defenses from good cities to fresh conquered ones), not as it is now...


    The mod is too hard now, its less enjoyable than before.


    Then i lost any reputation, as the wonder which allows comerce expired before Portus Ostiae so I was screwed in making alliances with so low cash.


    I am not accusing people to mod the MOD , myself I do it to have an enjoyable game. I am just advertise that suggestion from MODDED cant be applied to original, as most does now.


    The mod was too nerved. I have no fun to have 6gpt/unit while all the others have city bonuses and 2gpt.

    I quit the game before macedonian wars, as I was unable to conquer anything(no troops available), and had to wait too much for principate or whatever with a lower upkeep.
     
  18. gringoesteban

    gringoesteban Senior Consul

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    The excess cashflow came because I scrapped all the city improvements that became obsolete. Think about what your cashflow would be if you did not have to pay for any Triumphus, or Forum, or Academia, or etc etc. I also scrapped the expired things like Latifunda and Census that made people unhappy, so my population had more people working (and generating trade icons) rather than being entertainers. I double checked my BIQ and I did not make any modifications to the optimal city or corruption settings for v0.922 Consul level, which is the version I played.
     
  19. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    @V. Soma

    Just having read Salamander's post above about how the last set of patches makes the game less fun, I can't help but think I have to name next patch 1.0 and run away! . Your remark about the velites illustrates that perfectly: long ago, they were weaker, and cheaper, and people complained they were dying vainly, although they could already bombard and build roads. So I agreed, after much discussion, to increase their attack. And now they are too good? ;) Well, I dunno. I agree all free support units shouldn't be too powerful. But the game must stay fun too. I am afraid a large number of players will not like a change to A4 for the velites (I didn’t receive any death threat yet, but I want to be on the safe side). But if most players rely on a mass of stacked velites for attacking (or building roads), then something is wrong and should be changed anyway (more free maintenance for more legions, more slaves).

    @Jvoustas
    Now, corvus are back to the building list :) I can't remember why I removed them from there. Maybe to avoid seeing them pointing out in coastal cities which are not trade connected after the first punic war...
    You can really get fine timber easily even if the mare nostrum is not built: Illyria is close and weak enough for a quick conquest, even in 270BC. Just mind about their new pirate unit (for next patch) which should be able to "paradrop" on the nearby Italian coast.
    Is it really so hard to get an elite naval unit? If yes, then off we go for the requirement.
    And fine, I will keep wheat as a requirement for Scipio but add a permanent harbour in Italy (likely Neapolis); it just that like you said, Ostia looses a lot of its importance as a wonder. Maybe that Neapolis' port should get obsolete by 200BC.

    @Salamander

    Thanks again for the good feedback you brought in last time. Now I defy you to find more loopholes to get the Roman Empire everywhere as you did :)

    Now, about your remarks:
    Certainly, I do not wish to see praesidium moving anywhere. They are not supposed to. I don't get why the corvus could carry them in the last patch, they are just modded like the other transports (carry only foot units, which the praesidium are not). But, be happy, they are likely to be able to do that again in next patch incidentally, since the AI will use praesidium (and thus need the "defense" flag checked, thus needing the "load" flag checked, thus allowing this loophole to get back in the mod :lol: )

    Now, for the mod being to hard, I don't know. Many 'newbie' players have managed good games at the first shot with this version. It is certainly not easy, maybe you got used to a previous, too easy, version (I really can't remember how last version was in detail, too many patches were released in my poor life:)). 6gp/turn per unit is high, but with a free maintenance of 40 units, you really don't need to mind about it for some time, if you plan your army correctly. 20 legions, 10 artilleries, 5-10 boats, and some cavalry can make miracles!

    @Gringoesteban
    I will not make the merc legion D7, but I will (and have) reduced barbarian attack strenght from A10 to A9 (praedator, bellator loricatus1), and from A12 to A10 (incursator, bellator loricatus2).

    Questions :): 1)did you build castrum (radar adding 25% to A/D in nearby squares) along your lines, 2) did you really used the Rhine/Danube (on you SS if I looked well, it seemed your 1st defence line is well into German territory, beyond the Rhine, oh fool :p!) 3) should we increase fort/limes def. bonus a bit more?

    I changed the hun horsemen similarly to Attila (M4, no TATAR) and also removed the blitz. They will enslave Sarmatian cavalry from now on (a bit funny but well) :)

    And I will reduce the spawning rate of the great invasions wonders/buildings to 1/6 mostly.
    Still also, I am open to comments on the naval bombardment: I play so little, I feel I shouldn't be the one dictating the call!

    @Augustusam

    Thanks for the link. Never saw that unit before. It is in with next patch. Your idea for the Parthians sounds good, but I doubt the AI could deal with that. Plus, Parthia will really need to pile up some troops to resist a fully grown Roman Empire. My concern is to protect Parthia from the Romans, not the opposite ;)

    @Fictionless

    You are insulting Mithridates by attacking him with velites my poor Roman. Send in some legions, and Pompey BTW! Taking Pontus early on could work (especially in this version without pre-placed garrison), but I would consider this a kind of cheating (like taking Punic Spain before the Barca get there). I would prefer to make early Pontus well defended and reduce Mitrhidates' strength. Just give me feedback and thing will be changed you way :)
     
  20. Salamandre

    Salamandre King

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    I did the mistake to fight Pontus in my first game and was a fiasco so:

    Rome CAN ally to Syria. We have to do it as soon as you etablish embassy. Then declare on Pontus and let Syria do the work. In my 10 games Syria always eliminated Pontus. No Mithridates left.
     

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