Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire
171 hours is truly an epic undertaking. Wow.
I think it was about 120 hours effective. On this difficulty interturns are often 5-10 minutes and I didnt shut the game several times when sleeping. But didnt sleep much
Only played 20 houres...
I have to ask:
What's the secret to running a positive treasury balance here? People are talking about having huge surplus incomes, but I've been losing money hand over fist (and running in a deficity) since I unified italy.
What's the trick here? It's crippling me late game because my whole empire is getting sold out from under me just to pay my unit support costs and its not like I have all that many units.
How are other people making money?
I finished the game and I never had extra money till I upgraded legios imperatoria to legio mercenaria(free support!!). I dont know how others people shows income over 50k before that. IMHO the only trick is to build with a very few cities while others are on wealth, survey the growth and switch betwen them. Also, unfortunately, this mod needs a LOT of micromanagement, because when your city grows, the citizen goes always on a mine, and thats bad. For gold and for growth.
On the other side, 20 balistas/5 legios can be more effective then 20 legios/5 balistas.
You dont need to build a lot of navy, 10 cumbas (free support) and a few corvus to escort will be ok.
The beginning of the game is hard for running cash, but become much easier once you discovered Macedonian wars, which gives you your second no support decent unit which you have to build like mad. And velites are not that bad, with their 2 mov/forest free. Think to built presidiums as much as you can, they are free support and their presence can give you some extra turns to come back with your army if attacked. On possible "victim" cities I had more than 10 praesidiums over time. But this need time, and you have plenty !!
On the other side, I feelt that building temples and stuff in far away cities will not help but cost a lot, so I let them all at 10 pop, put on wealth and moved the luxury slider.
And the most important thing, which I discovered only in my last game: the game is VERY long. You dont have to be in continous expansion, but just go for ressources you need for the history.
The only thing I dont like in the mod is the inability of "noupgrade" units to join the city and give you that 1 point back. So you find yourself with a bunch of outdated units which you have to scrap for a few shields. Because they cost gold!
Ok, 0.94 has been uploaded, with plenty of changes; I am sure it will raise strong love/hate feelings
Important changes include:
-The addition of Goth nation
-More slaves (through catasta), faster road building, slower fabri, velites no longer building roads
-Barb. invasions tuned (spawning rate of 1 unit per 3 turn for C3C, 1 per 6 turn for GI; attack factor reduced, movement revised for Hun units, enslaved units less dangerous, immobile high attack/HP units to boost AI agressivity, setc.)
-A greater difficulty to take port cities without having a fleet (port give a def. bonus but can be easily destroyed by 'bombarding' it with a naval unit)
- The tech cost increased, starting from late republican times
- Improvements going obsolete (like the temples!) no longer cost support but other important improvements more expensive
- A few new cities
- A much stronger Carthage in Sicily: the 1st punic war should hopefully be waged there from now on.
- Praesidium in all AI cities, which should reduce conquests between AI nations and reduce the likeliness of a early conquest of Hispania by Rome.
- Naval trade is a bit easier to carry-out and wonders building should be more coherent
If all go smooth with this patch, I will, consider changing the year per turn rate (slower in early game, much faster in late game) and overally reduce game lenght from 500 turns to 400 or so. That will be another serious undertaking. Maybe my last one before 1.0
Thanks a lot to all for your great comments. Be sure they have been considered and that many are addressed in the patch Hope it goes well.
Oh man, I already love/hate you. Love you because you look for perfection, hate you because I thought I was done with CIV for a while, but seems not
It is difficult to tell you how to manage your finance without knowing what your expenses are:
-research: you should be able to stick to a 12 turn reserach period without going to high on the allocation to research. If not, it will indicates that you have (i) to small cities (stop building troops and get granaries!), or (ii) that you are lagging with historical rome in your territorial expansion, or (iii) that you didn't build enough Domus Discendi (schools) and Bibliotheca.
- Troops: unless you have a strong economy, it is not a good idea to exceed 40 supported units for long. Build auxiliaries (velites, celtic allies) instead of more legions.
Then of course, be sure you have markets in your towns, and your town must be relatively big and the countryside developed (roads!). As soon as you get some goods, look for possibility to trade with other nations like Egypt.
I am glad to be far far away from France; no you won't get me
1. constant micromanagement.
2. exploiting the bugs in C3 engine. in the end of the turn the game calculates research and taxes first, food and production after it.
Concerning the praesidium you added, putting them in every cities is going to be painful for early growth. Epirus is supposed to fall easily without much causalties. With those new praesidum, it's going to be a lot more bloody. I understand for the eastern nations, the Western greeks and Spain as Rome should have a stronger army by then. However, Epirus, the Italian islands (excluding Sicily) and North Africa should be free of them as they are quick easy campaign for Rome as soon as we get troops there. Fighting hordes of praesidium in Sicily while conquering Aleria, Olbia and Carales is simply very hard. In history, those islands were 1 or 2 years campaign. Same thing for Epirus and Carthage's mainland. Carthage never recovered after the battle of Zama and IIRC, the Romans kind of blitzed through North Africa. Especially in the beginning when the chances for another nation to invade Cartage is small compared to Rome's chances of doing that, it simply adds more challenge as it is a lot more difficult to recover after heavy losses. Personnaly, I think putting Praesidium in those places will only make Rome fall behind schedule in the early expansion phase.
Also, since it is likely we are going to face more ennemy units, it would maybe be a wise thing to up Rome's number of units in the late Republican time by giving 1 free units per city ( I know, I already proposed that some posts earlier). I don't have playtested this patch though so I don't know for sure.
Finally, for the northern Rhine defense, this screenshot could help you make the cultural borders fit nicely. I added some cities and moved some conquerable German cities a tile or 2. All the Limes are along the river.
Pink!!! What did you do!?!? I started a new game on .94 on which I had removed all the praesidium I though should be removed ( see earlier post) and big surprise : Rome seems to be missing a Legio on Messana, another somewhere esle ( I'm not positive on that one), 1 triremis along Croton and another one in Barium. Facing that, a boosted Phyrrus (what's the point of that?) and no more bltiz for Consular armies This is outrageous!! Seriously, either the RNG god hates me or you boosted too much Phyrrus. I lost half of my velites, all of my eques, 1 Legio and 3 miles socius. And they still had 6 redlined units. I finally defeated them in 272 bc (yes!!! 4 turns to kill them off ) Then Cartage declared war on me the same turn even though I had bought them off ( I had shipped all off my units on Messana to Croton to assault the city). The biggest surprise was there though : Barca comes in kills a praesidium and then an eques numidicus does the same thing and the city is lost. What kind of army did you put in Sicily? This is crazy!! I have no ships now except 1 triremis in Pisae and another one in Neapolis. I can't invade Sicily with that! And the carthage's ships are already closing in on my mainland.
Also, a little sidenote : the fact that Cartage's cultural border is right beside messana makes it almost impossible to defend the city, even with more units since they can all attack every turn. In previous versions, we had 1 turn to counterattack them except for the fast units.
All in all you boosted too much the other nations while reducing Rome's strengh.
Oh well, I'll restart just to see if I need to do more prayers before going to bed.
Edit -- Okay, sorry for all of this crying, I went mad because I had a kind of continuous bad RNG for the entire beginning. What I said concerning Cartage is still valid though.
Edit -- The second game went a lot better to kick Phyrrus butt, still waiting for Cartage's declaration of war.
Edit-- Carthage declare's war and aside AI stupidity, it would have taken the city as I see at least 10 units on the islant while I'm down to 10 also.
Edit-- The only thing that saved me was that I was able to kill Barca with pure luck early on. Now that they have nothing with lots of hp to send against my army, it's just suicide attack. I'll wait and stike when the time comes.
Edit -- Captured Palormus for an entire turn before waves of ennemy reinforcement turned this feat into a blood bath. My consular army retreated to Messana which is now defended by only 3 velites.
Edit -- Lost my second consular army trying to conquer Carales. I only have a 3 hp consular army left + 2 velites in messana. Magnae Graecia has declared war on me and hoplitai are pourring out from bovianum with a samnite which pillage the ore hill. i cant build any more Legio until I build a new road. A couple of Carthaginian are in front of Pisae. With only 10 Legio + 5 velites left scatered throughout the peninsula + sicily, I cant really defend myself so second lost game in a row.
Wow! I really think this patch is a lot harder. With all the units Carthage has in Lilybaeum, if you don't have a consular army defending at Messana, you will lose the city since the Barca is coming for you and you can't really strike back because of the borders. Also, with the Praesidium in Sicily, the AI takes his defense Mercenarii (the 5A,4D) to attack and if you got Magnae Graecia against you, you're basicly screwed. I think that's my only mistake. I forgot to ally them before Carthage did so.
For Messana, please put 100 culture point. The AI will still attack me but I will be able to attck their units too.
Oh and the AI seems to have so much units he doesn't know what to do with them. He takes 3-4 Mercenarii on a cumba make it move around Messana, makes 1 or 2 amphibious attack and then drops everything beside the city. Strange.
Ok, based on that, if there is no additional feedback (nobody died of heartstroke right? ), here is what I will at least do:
Hamilcar has better be leading mercenaries rather than elephants. That would help. Consular legions have more HP but yes, no longer blitz so as to force you to play with all your units, so I won't change that although I can increase their HP a bit more. For Sardinia/Corsica: I wish the Romans to first focus on Sicily, before moving to these. I will nonetheless reduce the number of preplaced praesidium in the areas you mentionned, and add more troops to Rome.
Thanks for the border thing on the Rhine, that will be done, also
Here are revised EASIER BIQ; consider this as 0.941.
Apologies for my lack of time to playtest this version.
Cpt. Beaver, give it a try and let me know if it replies to the concern you raised above!
I'm going to give it a try as well. So much for making the early game easy!
well I didn't want to make it seem like I had a seizure playing .94 I guess I overreacted
but it was really hard the second game especially because of the Barca rampaging through Sicily. The first was a complete disaster because of bad luck. Phyrrus would have won if it hadn't been an AI.
I'm happy you understand my concerns on the praesidium problem. Some places never had that much units. As a starter, I would remove at least those on Corsica and Sardigna and then based on play test, remove or add more in diffrent places. This is what I did for my 2 lost games. The only problem with those new units is that Carthage has a tendency to let only praesidium in some cities because they are def units. They use their mobile def unit to make suicide attacks on my army.
Make sure all the taxation buildings are built, esp where corruption is low. Note that Athens should have ~100 commerce, so tax, tax, tax!!
When improvements become obsolete, get rid of them if they are still costing maintinence. Depracated improvements can still produce slave unrest as well..
Don't deplete the population of your tax base too much. Back-fill with idle servii.
Those egypitian flood-plain cites can support as many as 5 taxmen. But with unhappyness, civil war, etc... the AI will change them to less helpful types. So check on them from time to time to make sure they are still paying!
Building sufficient research infrastructure allows 12 turns with a max of 50%. Once the empire is big then 30% will do, or hopefully only 20% will be enough.
Pink is upping the cost, so .94+ games won't be as easy.
Also, know when the golden age is coming so you can maximize it. Be sure all the tax buildings are done already so the bounty can be reaped
I would just like to say that this mod is the best. I often play on emperor level and noteced a bug. At about 75-25BC the timeline goes off by one turn late. The only gameplay problem I can find is how loung it takes to invade Gaul and Iberia, but, I'm probably just being picky . One of my common stratageis when invading Gaul and Iberia is to leave my cities there compleatly defenseless. This seems wrone to me. Maby you should give the barbarians a unit with 1.1.4 that moves fast on hills and trees so you have to defend your cities. Anyway, keep up the good work .
Great mod! Liked to play it very much. Thousand thanks for talented creator.
P.S. May be it's wrong place to ask this sort of a question, so forgive me if I make a mistake. I found many post complaining that CIV3 editor does not provide a tool for placing cities and units and gave up a dream of making scenario myself. Now I see that bright folks (not like me)found a way to overcome this problem. How? Is it a secret soft? Or my problem is about my own natural stupidity and complete blindness? Thanks for patience and possible replies .
I have the same question. I was able to delete units in the RFRE BIQ but I could not figure out how to add units.
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