Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by pinktilapia, Aug 4, 2004.

  1. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    @Coltrane - weekend is there, I will think over it, sounds good. Otherwise SoG idea can be easily worked out as well (maybe in combination if needed), although I am trying to limit the number of different strategic/luxury resources on the map
    @Onedreamer

    - map: some cities are placed a bit away from where there should be for gameplay reason (e.g. Capua), but I may have make errors. Give me names and I will check!

    - names: go ahead :)! We can discuss these once you are done (maybe just put the new english name besides the Latin one when you change it, coz otherwise I will never figure it out).

    Now, I must run away before getting stuck in that Friday's evening giant traffic jam!
     
  2. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

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    of course I'm doing it. I finished yesterday the roman units.
     
  3. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

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    I don't have the game map to check :p
    From the screenshots, I noticed:
    - Beneventum is not just "a bit" away from its spot ^^. Move it to the coast and call it Hadria.
    - Corfinium is ok, but it was really a minor center. Move it west of the fish, on the coast, and call it Ancona.
    - Rename Locri with Croton, Demetrias with Larissa and optionally Panormus with Lilybaeum for the same reason.

    some typos:
    Ariminium > Ariminum
    Brindisium > Brundisium
    Messina > Messana
    Delphus > Delphi

    About Greek and Latin, no they are quite different, and I don't know Greek. But I suppose one could find at least the (classic) greek names of cities, if not of units, with Google.
     
  4. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    @onedreamer, but then you'd also have to use Egyptian, Carthagian, Celtic and Parthian/Sassanidian names, etc. And that would create a terrible mess, nobody would look through it and it's a terrible work.

    So, better take all the names in Latin, since the scenario is about rise of rome from the view of rome.

    mfG mitsho
     
  5. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

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    yeah I agree.
     
  6. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

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    Woadraider is not translated yet. I'm not sure what they are, and I doubt Romans knew :p (need info). Also need info on who do you mean with Antonine's Army.
    I repeat my opinion which is to use only roman units with latin names, if any. Most of the translations I just translated literally, but if you talk to a legionary in person and describe enemies with those terms he will probably laugh at you :D But after all it's a game and units need many different names...
    All units names or almost are plural, because they were plural in english. If you want the singular names make me know.


    Faction 1 - The Romans
    Miscellaneous
    Colonus (Settler)
    Operarius (Worker)
    Servus (Slaves)
    Early Republic
    Legio (Legion)
    Legio Scipionis (Scipio's Army)
    Sociales Hoplites (Allied Hoplites)
    Velites (Velites)
    Praesidium (Republican Garrison)
    Sociales Milites (Allied Warriors)
    Sociales Sagittarii (Allied Archers)
    Ballista (Ballista)
    Equitati (Light Cavalry)
    Late Republic
    Legio Consularis (Consular Legion)
    Legio Caesaris (Caesar's Army)
    (Equites) Alarii (Allied Horsemen)
    Early Empire
    Legio Imperatoria (Imperial Legion)
    Catapulta (Catapult)
    Cohortes Praetorianae (Praetorian Guards)
    Praesidium (Imperial Garrison)
    Middle Empire
    Antonine's Army (whom ?)
    Auxiliares (Milites) (Auxiliary Infantry)
    Auxiliarii Sagittarii (Auxiliary Archers)
    Auxiliares Equites (Auxiliary Cavalry)
    Late Empire
    Legio Praetoriana (Praetorian Legion)
    Barbari Mercenarii (Barbarian Mercenaries)
    Equites Mercenarii (Mounted Barbarian Mercenaries)
    Legio Mercenaria (Mercenary Legion)
    Early Byzantine
    Stratiots ( “Stratiotes” is Greek and means soldier... I suppose you can use the greek name. Latin Milites)
    (Equites) Cataphracti (Cataphracts)
    Ignis Graecus (Greek Fire, literally translated)

    Faction 2 - German, Celt, Britain, Thracian, Iberic Tribes
    Had an hard time here... especially trying to make a difference between Raider and Marauder...

    272BC-0AC
    Bellatores (Warriors)
    Sagittarii (Bowmen)
    Praedatores (Raiders)
    Tribus (Tribe)
    0-250AC
    Bellatores Loricati (Armored Warriors)
    Woadraiders (man... for the romans they were just barbarians !)
    Equites (Horsemen)
    250-350AC
    Di(s)ruptores (Marauders)
    Equites Di(s)ruptores (Marauding Horsemen)
    350AC+
    Incursores (Invaders)
    Equites Loricati (Armored Horsemen)
    Praesidium Germanum (German Garrison)

    Faction 3 - The Carthaginians
    Mercenarii (Mercenaries)
    Exercitus Barcae (Barca's Army)
    Sagittarii (Archers)
    Militia (Militia)
    Equitati (Light Cavalry)
    Equites Numidici (Numid Horsemen)
    Elephanti Loricati (War Elephants)

    Faction 4 - The Greeks
    Phalanx (Phalanx)
    Hoplites (Hoplites)
    Peltastae (Peltasts)
    Sagittarii (Archers)
    Militia (Militia)
    Equitati (Light Cavalry)
    Cataphracti (Heavy Cavalry)
    Elephanti Loricati (War Elephants)
    Samnites (they were actually Italics not Greek, screw Rome: TW. Samnite Warriors)
    Servi Seditiosi (Revolted Slaves)

    Faction 5 - The Egyptians
    Pedites (Infantry)
    Legio Antonii (Antonius' Legion)
    Sagittarii (Archers)
    Militia (Militia)
    Elephanti Loricati (War Elephants)
    Camelites (I invented it ! Camel Riders)

    Faction 6 - The Persians
    272BC-250AC
    Parthi Equites (Parthian Horsemen)
    Equites Sagittarii (Parthian Horse Archers)
    Militia (Militia)
    250AC+
    Saxanides Equitati (Sassanid Cavalry)
    Praesidium Saxanis (Sassanid Garrison)

    Faction 7 - Pontus
    Armeni Bellatores (Armenian Warriors)
    Exercitus Mithridaticus (Mithidrates' Army)
    Sagittarii (Archers)
    Militia (Militia)
    Equitati (Light Cavalry)
    Cataphracti (Heavy Cavalry)

    Faction 8 - The Pirates
    Piratae (Pirates)

    Faction 9 - The Illyrians
    Piratae (Pirates)
    Sagittarii (Archers)
    Militia (Militia)
    Equitati (Light Cavalry)

    Faction 10 - The Steppe Tribes
    Nomades (Nomads)
    Sarmatae Equites (Sarmathian Horsemen)
    Hunni Equites Sagittarii (Hun Horse Archers)
    Copiae Attilae (Attila's Horde)
    Tribus(Tribe)

    Faction 11 - The Barbarians
    Tribus (Tribe)
    Equites Praedatores (Mounted Raiders)

    Faction 12 - The Nabateans
    Sagittarii (Archers)
    Militia (Militia)
    Camelites (Camel Riders)

    All Factions - Ships
    Cymba (Coracle)
    Triremes (Triremes)
    Naves Longae (Fine Triremes, actually means Warships)
    Quinqueremes (Quinquiremes)
    Dromones (Dromons)
    Naves Piraticae (Pirate Triremes)
    Naves Velis (Sailboats)
     
  7. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

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    Also Pictish warrior is derived from the latin Pictus which means Painted for their blue woad flower tatooing.
     
  8. jobiwan7

    jobiwan7 Jedi Scholar

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    Hello again!

    I noticed you were discussing a “Mercenaries Concept,” and I had an idea for it. I was thinking about how Rome used soldiers from lands they had conquered, and wondering how to implement that in Civ. Here’s what I came up with.

    Let’s say the Romans are fighting Gauls. On the map, “people-resources” (bonus resources) called “Gauls” have been placed within Gaul city radii or on the city tiles themself. Once Rome captures these cities, they can build some sort of “Mercenary Building” that requires “Gauls” in the city radius and produces a Gallic Infantryman (or whatever unit) every 5 or 10 turns. The improvement would have a high maintenance cost to simulate the hiring of mercenaries.

    I think this would seem pretty realistic, as you’re not “building” them in your cities (recruiting, training, etc.), but they are already trained (built automatically), and require pay. I think this would work better than the “people-resources” being strategic resources, because then, using your trade network, you could build Gallic Infantry in Egypt or Greece! This idea would also be helpful if you lack the resources to build the units. It would be expensive, but at least you’d have an army.

    Does that sound like a good idea?
     
  9. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

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    it's Keltai. Keltai is the term the colonists of Massalia (Marseille) gave to the populations in the modern France. Galatai is the term greek people used to describe the Celts. In fact, Galatia was founded by Celtic people.
     
  10. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

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    I love it :)
     
  11. Rob (R8XFT)

    Rob (R8XFT) Ancient Briton Super Moderator

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    @jobiwan7 : That sounds like an absolutely brilliant idea to me :) .
     
  12. Cimbri

    Cimbri Deity

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    Yeah. I’m using that idea.


    For instance, Thracian Mercenaries are a strategic resource, they can be traded so Greeks can build Thracian peltasts etc. In Rome however, there is a resource called, Roma, it allows you to build a Legion Training Grounds, though I plan to rename it Campus Martius. This building provides you with a Legion every 20 turn. The Romans can also build Auxilla Barracks. Every type of barracks is named Italic Barracks, Iberian Barracks, etc. It requires special resources within the city radius.

    It really annoys me that they didn’t just include a “unit can only be built in city with X improvement” function. Alas…
     
  13. Princeps

    Princeps More bombs than God

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    There was list of units, and i saw a unit called phalanx. Newsflash: Phalanx isin't a unit its a formation :mischief:
     
  14. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    @Onedreamer: GREAT!!! Thanks, you just added something I couldn't really do myself. You sure won you name on the credit list :)
    Comments and answers:


    Cohortes Praetorianae (Praetorian Guards)
    Were the guards called only Praetorin cohorts or did you do that to distinct them from the Praetorian Legion (which name was changed over the weekend for Imperial Guards)
    Antonine's Army (whom ?)
    Hum, yes, it is generic. It represents the armies under the command of the various great Antonine Emperors, mainly Trajan and Marcus Antonius...
    Legio Praetoriana (Praetorian Legion)
    Gone for Imperial Guards (I have the Latin name for that somewhere)
    Equites Mercenarii (Mounted Barbarian Mercenaries)
    Ok if I put Barbari Equites Mercenarii, to be coherent with the similar foot unit?
    Stratiots ( “Stratiotes” is Greek and means soldier... I suppose you can use the greek name. Latin Milites)
    Will be stratiotes then
    Woadraiders (man... for the romans they were just barbarians !)
    Would Misfit's Pictus be a good name for these horrible naked barbarians (sigh, Keira...)?
    Samnites (they were actually Italics not Greek, screw Rome: TW. Samnite Warriors)
    Agree, just gave their city (Bovianum) to the West Greek for game reasons
    Camelites (I invented it ! Camel Riders)
    Arrr, confirmation it is ok?
    Equites Sagittarii (Parthian Horse Archers)
    Parthi Equites Sagittarii, to be coherent with the similar foot unit
    Naves Longae (Fine Triremes, actually means Warships)
    I would keep triremes in the name. What would be the latin for 'superior triremes' or the kind?

    Good job really :goodjob: !
    Tell me if you feel ready for the improvements :)!
     
  15. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    @All
    Concerning the suggestion of improvement spawning regional troops there and there, I read that idea sometime ago on CFC. I am not sure it fit well in the full mod, because there are too many areas, on a too long period of time (272BC-600AC).
    Most of my units (for Rome) are generic and not limited to one region (the Numids are one of the only exceptions). Just how many troops I could add if I was doing so is anyone's guess but I am sure it would many. How distinct that many could really be from each other is also an issue. And all the improvements would generate 'free' units, although I know the upkeep cost of the buildings could be set high to offset that. Since the number of units, that must be supported, the Roman can have on the map is limited, these should be of free upkeep. I feel it could affect the game balance on the long term in a difficult way to assess... Now, a few (one or two) of these would be great I think. I have currently only the Numid's War Camp wonder. Another one? Suggestions :)!
    @Cimbri
    I could write a down a list of critical missing things in Civ engine...!!! Maybe half the fun is to try to bypass the limitations with tech and wonders :)
    @Naziassbandit
    Then... would Holpites Phalanx be right?
     
  16. jobiwan7

    jobiwan7 Jedi Scholar

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    One more thing on my mercenary idea:

    If my idea is used, would it be best to have two "Mercenary Barracks" buildings? I ask because it wouldn't work well to have only one type of mercenary since, by the end of the game, its stats would be so low compared to other units that it would be useless.

    So, the other part of my idea is to have another, later "Mercenary Building" that would make the first obsolete. So, I guess you'd make the two buildings available in the 1st and 3rd eras, or the 2nd and 4th?

    Would that work better?
     
  17. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    I almost forgot to add. Along line with Jobiwan's idea, I already added a new 'luxury' resource called barbarians (ironic, actually to call them a luxury lol), which represents northern goods (honey, furs, slaves, amber, etc.) -the luxury part- but is also a strategic resource that you need to build your two barbarian mercenary units by the end of the game. Since these are only present far away in Germania and Sarmatia, the Roman will have to trade for these.
    @Coltrane, for the tradable unit, I think I will keep that possibility for the slaves.
     
  18. jobiwan7

    jobiwan7 Jedi Scholar

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    Or fight for them. :D
     
  19. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    Tt would be ok to have only one since the units doesn't progress that much during the game. An A8, D4, HP3 mercenary available by the middle republic would remain pretty effective until the end.
    But do we need a additional mercenary? I am not speaking of the idea, which is good indeed, but of historical accuracy. Is there a part of the Roman (or any other)'s army which I haven't represented. Besides Numid's Cavalry and late-imperial barbarians troops, any other famous auxiliaries?
     
  20. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    Man, these are far far away...! If Rome can reach that spot, the barbarians are history and the Fall of Rome delayed for another 1000 year :)!
     

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