Rise and Stagnation of Civilization (Earth18Civs BtS, not RFC)

[Zacar]

I think it is better to choose from the leaders available. After all, Knoedel could break the map when editing it!! Gameplay-wise, I don't mind though.

I don't understand the effects of a difficulty level if it can be applied differently to different players. The definition of a difficulty level covers both the player and AIs. Here is a useful difficulty level chart for reference: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10629596&postcount=13

- to not allow the spy action of "changing Civics". It is surprisingly cheap and it can be too powerfull in certain conditions.

I agree with this. It seems like a mechanic designed against AI only. (does AI even use it against humans ever?)

edit: Along the same spirit, I'd probably suggest banning "Influence Religion" as well.

- to not allow giving cities to AI just for the purpose of avoiding it falling to another human. For me this should falls under the 'respect' rule above but it has happened to me so I would prefer to have this explicit rule.

I do not agree with this. There are plenty of things that can go wrong if you wage war, and this sort of stuff falls under that IMO. Not very different from the vassal-mechanic, or a diplomatic victory where someone votes for the benefit of a third party.

 

[Luthor_Saxburg]

I could probably, but I'd have to look up how.

It's quite easy. You just open with a text editor and REPLACE all the text of ASOKA with GANDHI. I can do it for you if you like.

Hmmmmm, how would you have reacted if instead of an AI he had given that city to a human player? Should that be allowed?

IMHO no. With a human might be easier to change the situation because you can reason with them. But the principle is the same.

How about the following house rule: You may not trade cities while you are at war outside of peace treaties.

Seems good.

I don't understand the effects of a difficulty level if it can be applied differently to different players

I am no expert but you can set a different difficult level for EACH Civ. So, in theory, we could even have different AI's with different difficulty levels.

I agree with this. It seems like a mechanic designed against AI only. (does AI even use it against humans ever?)

Well, I've never seen the AI using it! The spy missions that the AI seems to use the most is to steal techs, destroy improvements and poison the water supply. I've NEVER seen it use the "change civics" one.

.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I think it is better to choose from the leaders available. After all, Knoedel could break the map when editing it!! Gameplay-wise, I don't mind though.

I think you severely underestimate my modding skills.

I agree with this. It seems like a mechanic designed against AI only. (does AI even use it against humans ever?)

edit: Along the same spirit, I'd probably suggest banning "Influence Religion" as well.

I still think we should allow it with some restrictions. Perhaps something like "A player may only attempt to conduct a Change Civic or Influence Religion mission one for every Great Spy that is born in their civilization"?

I do not agree with this. There are plenty of things that can go wrong if you wage war, and this sort of stuff falls under that IMO. Not very different from the vassal-mechanic, or a diplomatic victory where someone votes for the benefit of a third party.

What do you think about my latest suggestion about that?

It's quite easy. You just open with a text editor and REPLACE all the text of ASOKA with GANDHI. I can do it for you if you like.

Whaddaya know, it really was that easy. I played around a little and also managed to change civilizations. Should I replace one civ with the Koreans so you can play them after all? In fact this gives a whole lot more options to everyone. Anyone else wanna change their leader and/or civilization pick based on this knowledge?

 

[Nighthawk419]

Really, Knoedel? THAT is where you think the ideal spot for Athens is??? I would disagree and you'll see when we start the game.

the Odean is from construction, which I believe is a classical era tech, so I can't go back classical. I'm gambling a bit with my traits though with that selection. Sure, I could go an era or two farther along, but I'm hoping my tech rate won't COMPLETELY disappear after I go to 0... Part of the benefit of Greece that I like is all the good food in the area...

I'm telling you guys - just do Noble for the AI. Cheiftan is WAY too easy. Anything more than Noble is pretty challenging. The point is to play the other humans with the AI as an added wrinkle. We don't them to be able to be walked all over, but also don't want them to be so difficult that we need to work together to defeat them.

Normal speed is PBEM standard, and it should be the same with this one.

I'm fine/don't care with the other house rules. Luthor, I agree with your point on city gifting. All I will say is that I've had no other games where city gifting was limited in any way and it was abused like you've mentioned. There only seems to be one player around here who does things like that...

 

[Nighthawk419]

If you can change leaders, can I be Pericles instead then?

 

[Zacar]

I prefer banning/not banning wrt Luthor's suggestions, because simple rules are easier to handle. I understand that you find linking GP usage to house rules interesting, as some other PBEMs used such mechanics, but I think this PBEM appears less about active GM work than those.

Regarding start locations, I also agree that my original start was in better location than the modified one.

With Korea you would have to think about the starting location, unless you reuse an existing one. Though I don't mind such changes.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Really, Knoedel? THAT is where you think the ideal spot for Athens is??? I would disagree and you'll see when we start the game.

The only other good spot would be on the Marble 2N, but that would make a port connecting the Black Sea with the Mediterranean impossible unless you settle on the sheep or have way too many workers and occasionally replace an improvement with a temporary fort like I do in our private RFC game.

the Odean is from construction, which I believe is a classical era tech, so I can't go back classical. I'm gambling a bit with my traits though with that selection. Sure, I could go an era or two farther along, but I'm hoping my tech rate won't COMPLETELY disappear after I go to 0... Part of the benefit of Greece that I like is all the good food in the area...

You're right, so no more research slider or building upon entering the Medieval era for you.

I'm fine/don't care with the other house rules. Luthor, I agree with your point on city gifting. All I will say is that I've had no other games where city gifting was limited in any way and it was abused like you've mentioned. There only seems to be one player around here who does things like that...

Someone here seems to suffer from selective memory... *cough* Earth Triumvirate Uprising *cough* Chinese and Mongolian refugees in the Middle East *cough*

If you can change leaders, can I be Pericles instead then?

Alrighty then!

 

[sinimusta]

I'm fine with the houserules: "no city gifts outside peacedeals" and "GSpy for each civic switch mission/reli switch mission".

And I'd like to change to Ramses.

If changing civs, try to take into account their geopolitical position. If India is removed to get Korea, it leaves a lot of land empty and gives some civs more peaceful expansion. So I'd change civs that are close to each other for example Korea could replace China.

 

[Nighthawk419]

Nope nope nope, you are wrong. I just tested it. I know exactly what I'm going for

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

And I'd like to change to Ramses.

If changing civs, try to take into account their geopolitical position. If India is removed to get Korea, it leaves a lot of land empty and gives some civs more peaceful expansion. So I'd change civs that are close to each other for example Korea could replace China.

Right-o.

Duh, I'm not an idiot, though I suppose the easiest would be to just remove a civ from Europe.

Nope nope nope, you are wrong. I just tested it. I know exactly what I'm going for

Fine then, ruin all my dot-mapping why don't you!

 

[PatriotNorwood]

If it is not to late may I join in?

I can't play every day, so if that is an issue then I don't have to join this game.

I'm willing to play any civilization. I really have no idea on my skill level in general, but I'm still fairly new to PBEMs.

I Live in the CST zone (GMT -6). And play in the Late Morning/Afternoon.

A couple of question about the game:

At what exact point do you drop the science slider? When it says you have advanced to the next era orr when you have completed all techs in an era?

Also can you build buildings that increase your science?

And just a minor note: what about putting the science slider at 10% instead of 0%?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

If it is not to late may I join in?

I can't play every day, so if that is an issue then I don't have to join this game.

I'm willing to play any civilization. I really have no idea on my skill level in general, but I'm still fairly new to PBEMs.

I Live in the CST zone (GMT -6). And play in the Late Morning/Afternoon.

A couple of question about the game:

At what exact point do you drop the science slider? When it says you have advanced to the next era orr when you have completed all techs in an era?

Also can you build buildings that increase your science?

And just a minor note: what about putting the science slider at 10% instead of 0%?

Sure, come on in!

Well how often can you play? Every other day would be good enough. Some people like Nighthawk don't play at all on weekends for example, and he is in a lot of PBEMs.

Hm, guess I'll look what area of the map is emptiest and put you there.

When you get the popup that you have reached the era after your latest UU/UB gets enabled you instantly drop the Research slider to 0% and leave it there for the rest of the game. If we went with your other option people could easily circumvent the house rule by just ignoring the most useless tech in the era that's supposed to be their last one.

You can build science buildings all you want, yes.

Nope, 0. I am lenient enough to still allow research via specialists and I have the feeling some people are gonna abuse the mechanics as much as they can as it is.

 

[PatriotNorwood]

Sure, come on in!

Well how often can you play? Every other day would be good enough. Some people like Nighthawk don't play at all on weekends for example, and he is in a lot of PBEMs.

Yes weekends are bad for me, but I can play on most days of the week.

Nope, 0. I am lenient enough to still allow research via specialists and I have the feeling some people are gonna abuse the mechanics as much as they can as it is.

Sounds good. Is tech stealing going to be allowed?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Yes weekends are bad for me, but I can play on most days of the week.

Sounds good. Is tech stealing going to be allowed?

Good enough.

Yup, only touching the slider and building Research is forbidden, everything else goes.

 

[ReallyEvilMuff]

Hey this seems interesting, although has been quiet for a while - is this still going or has started?

Also, there seems to be some questions about the map. Did you think of using the EE2 map at all? It balances out the earth18 map a fair bit making parts more productive and uses a nice script to put any civ chosen into their historical starting place with whatever leader you choose for them. It is a very nice map

 

[ReallyEvilMuff]

I can email you the mapscript if you wish btw.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Hey this seems interesting, although has been quiet for a while - is this still going or has started?

Also, there seems to be some questions about the map. Did you think of using the EE2 map at all? It balances out the earth18 map a fair bit making parts more productive and uses a nice script to put any civ chosen into their historical starting place with whatever leader you choose for them. It is a very nice map

I can email you the mapscript if you wish btw.

I've been waiting for more players, but since it doesn't seem as if more people are interested we'll start any day now. Do you want to join?

Never heard of it, if it truly is as good as you say I'd love to use it, and I'm sure the rest of the players in this game as well. Link plox.

 

[ReallyEvilMuff]

I dunno where a link is, there is an ee2 community on evolve that play it regularly who emailed me the script. I'll find where it is in my files, and where you need to put it and send it over.

Africa is completely overhauled making Mali, Zulu, Carthage and Ethiopia viable choices. It has an enlarged Europe like rfc and generally most civs are playable. We just need to be mindful with civ picks to a certain extent as for example Byzantium and ottomans caps share BFC tiles.

But it is a much better map than earth 18, before you even consider the variability that you get with being able to pick any civ/leader.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Okay then, send it to me, and convince whoever you got it from that they should upload it to the forum.

You didn't answer my question if you'd like to join this game btw.

 

[ReallyEvilMuff]

Sorry I thought it was obvious in the original post I do! Interesting idea... Turning off tech after your era. My guess trading off as standard too?

I'll send you the list of civs that are usually played with on it when I get back in. We can play around this with certain choices and some of the banned civs are probably playable with the new teching rule alhough usually there are no new world civs in play - they just don't really have a chance. Realistically, for example Aztecs turning off tech in the (medieval?) era with a maximum of like 2 other bew world civs are gonna reach astro after like 5 bulbs... It would kill them.

A note on the difficulty - the game needs the AI to start with archers to prevent cheese kills early on really unless we play a modified map. Not a big issue considering everyone will know the map inside out beforehand. The usual AI difficulty we play online is emperor or immortal, otherwise they are overrun very quickly.