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Rise of Mankind 2.9 discussion

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rise of Mankind' started by zappara, Oct 24, 2009.

  1. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    Yes, I know my modmod only enables 1 larger radius instead of 2, but in RoM's case, I felt that it would unbalance the game too much to allow 2 extra squares. FYI, you need to have a city reach Influential culture before the new radius unlocks.

    You will need to start a new game, old saves are not compatible.


    Interesting, I had no idea about the player options, but keep in mind, modders are only given 3, and no more, to play with, so I don't want to squander them, and be forced to remove one in the future.

    I can look into those various improvement tweaks, but keep in mind, the way the AI sorts and decides to build improvements is pretty convoluted, I don't know if I can do much without breaking it completely.

    I might have to steal some of those...

    Forts can serve as a short canal, I believe 1 square inland.
     
  2. szemek77

    szemek77 Prince

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    Poland, Warsaw
    Players can't, but I'm curious about modders :)

    Of course everything you've said is true. The beauty of CIV games is that they are always different. After finishing a game, I'm excited about the next one - what leader would I get, what kind of location and map, which resources nearby, and so on. Plus,
    thank to guys like you, we can enjoy modified editions, sequels, addons etc.

    I'm really curious what the CIV V would be? I liked CIV I for the fresh idea, CIV II was great, didn't like third series, but CIV IV appeared as a perfect and finished version. I really don't see much to change, also because you guys did a lot. If only there is a way to speed the game......
     
  3. Snub

    Snub Chieftain

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    Netherlands
    Thanks both of you :) we figured something out that works. Made a thread here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=342471
     
  4. Cozart

    Cozart Chieftain

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    I hear Civ 5 will be a MMORPG set in the Civ universe.



    Just kidding.

    As for using forts for the canal, I was thinking what if you wanted to go more than 1 tile. I have often wanted to make a short cut around a continent when I am on an isthmus or peninsula. Maybe that's just me though, canals could also be used as defensive. Build a canal across your border to keep barbarians out.

    Like I said though, I don't know if that could even be accomplished.
     
  5. Randomness

    Randomness ...

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    I am verry sorry if this has been suggested before (I haven't read through all the threads as I just discovered this mod recently). Decimal exp, commerce, science, and trade routes (Rife /Rise of Eurebus) :)
     
  6. Cyrusfan

    Cyrusfan King

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    Afforess, I think my options A and B could probably done as one option, the last is just because I'm a tad lazy. Another option I'd use is one to replace all the on-map unit graphics with counters like one might see in tabletop military strategy games, in order to beat down the memory requirements in the mid to late game (stupid MAF crashes...).

    Randomness is right that there are a host of tweaks in RifE that may merit a look. As long as they're not too memory busting. I'd like to see the trade route limit bumped up to the point we can't surpass it (My coastal cities are right next to it towards the end of the industrial era, and I assume there are yet more things to give trade routes, but I'm also running Objectivism to keep my research going).

    Civ 5? I'd do away with the food overflow generates population and instead grow city population at a rate depending primarily on the tiles controlled by the city and modified for surplus/deficit food, happiness, etc. Citizens would be determined by some formula of the population (say pop/10k, and take the square root). Then I'd take population out of the cities when building units and replacing casualties and use that effect as the basis for war weariness. I'd redo combat to something more like Panzer General (more unit stats, combat would rarely result in the outright destruction of a unit {as historically, losing an entire army was a pretty big deal} but frequently relocation to another tile or city, and I'd base first strikes on the relative range and/or mobility of the units). I'd change the upgrade from instantaneous effect to a process, basically I'd significantly increase the upkeep on an upgrading unit and give it an increasing probability each turn of completing the upgrade

    I'd also calculate tech costs on the fly based on the global commerce output of the last 10 or 20 turns and how fast techs should go at that level of development, to get rid of all the 'this research takes forever' and the 'one research every two turns' turns. I'd separate technology from the applications (wonders, units, civics, etc,) and force choices to prioritize between applications. I'd accumulate all the GPP like great general points, empirewide, since I have so many cities that generate unused GPP (I'd probably include some effect to reward concentrations of a particular GPP type contribution) and I'd improve specialist options with technology (temples would allow priests, cathedrals would allow bishops who are worth an extra gold and GPP, the Apostolic Palace would give a free Pope who's even better).

    Finally I'd throw out the old civ paradigm on trade being best at great distances. I think it's far more important (in the real world) to have trade going on within your nation than it is to have a handful of folks bring in sandwich toppings from the other side of the world. So I'd have each city attempt to send trade to every other city, with the strength of each effect based on the commerce at the home city and the distance to the destination based on the most efficient route (basically, multiply by the number of times I could cover that trip in, say, five turns, with a unit of movement mode appropriate to my tech level). Trade income would be the square or cube root of the total incoming trade effects. Each city would be a primary source of resources on tiles it controls (or produced by its buildings), and when trading to a city without such a resource, would increase the strength of its trade and make the destination city a secondary 'producer.' Cities with secondary resources could, depending on the resource and tech, similarly give them to tertiary producers. Production bonuses would then be given on builds the closer they are to each actual resource they need (though once researched, they'd always be buildable, just very slowly without those resources.

    Of course, I'm just some guy with an opinion. I'm just saying there are changes to be made if they want to.
     
  7. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    I have seen this done somewhere.... as an option to if I remember correctly.. now where was it...
     
  8. NBAfan

    NBAfan boss

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    @Cyrusfan you could post your ideas for Civ 5 here.:)
    @Dancing Hoskuld I hope you remember it so Afforess can merge it into his Dll.;)
     
  9. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    Dont know if anyone has seen this error before:

    LSystem failed to place node Leaf_Farm_4x4!
    Could not find extra artref pointed at by artref art:LEMQE_PLANTATION_RACK
    LSystem failed to place node Leaf_LandImprovement_4x4!
     
  10. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    Wow, that's a lot. I will add that onto my 1.6 wish list. There are a bunch of things I can use from Dom Pedro's mod, as he really changed up trade a ton... And I can definitely look at Rife's source code and see if I can't get a player option or two from them.
     
  11. dudeSDCA

    dudeSDCA Prince

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    Two concrete observations:

    - It doesn't seem that the AI values scouts/explorers/exploring. I sometimes find myself in mid-game landing on a new continent with several Civs on it and finding tons of goodie huts untouched. Seems strange.

    - Is there a way to increase the weight the AI gives to workers building villages/cottages/towns? Even when I have my workers on auto, it seems they don't really like to build these, even when civic bonuses would encourage their being built.

    I mentioned this in the betterAI forum, but not sure who ultimately would made any of these changes (assuming you all agree).
     
  12. munky

    munky Warlord

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    first of all that MMORPG sounds so real that it makes me cringe... very funny! Maybe it will be on the Wii before the PC version? i heard civ5 is being written as a Flash Game... Java maybe? :sad:

    and dont get me started, they've all been bored by it to the point i need to work the revDCM folks now, about (1) forts and their absurd usage and (2) canals which i do think i remember zaparra had mentioned how like AlphaCentauri/AlienCrossfire it would be cool if you could alter the terrain with mods -- e.g. creation of land bridges, flattening of land masses, creation of a river, etc. >>> imagine a Suez Canal Wonder or Panama Canal that allowed a greater than two wide isthmus (the default two forts next to each other that is currently possible as a pseudo-canal, despite the absurd notion of a fort being capable to handle huge trans-ocean ship traffic) to be bridged permanently by a virtual shipping canal. :goodjob:

    i still wonder where in the revDCM i can take my forts spouts...
     
  13. Cyrusfan

    Cyrusfan King

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    Sorry, I guess I got a little carried away there. It was late.

    On the simpler unit graphics, I kind of picture a thin cardboard token with really basic symbols, like a triangle pointing down for any unit that has city defender promotions (overrides all other considerations), a triangle pointing up if it has any city attacker promotions, an 'X' if it has combat promotions, an 'O' if it's capable of bombardment, 'S' for any kind of Settler, 'W' for workers, and so on. But that's under the assumption that unit graphics rather than stats, or the culture counts on tiles, or picking trade routes is the big memory bugaboo.

    But because I can't help myself, if Civ5 were mine, I'd also make culture more incremental, so a new city would have only its own tile (and therefore one specialist), culture level one would give the four adjacent tiles, two would give the four corners, etc. I'd make certain levels of roads spawn as a consequence of trade. I'd throw away workers entirely and improve tiles through the (maybe a second) city build queue. And I'd make building/wonder effects expire (or not) individually (with all RoM religious buildings naturally spreading religion, it's not quite so much of annoyance to lose the ability to build monasteries, but some effects could just be reduced).

    Actually, one thing that may not be too hard to bring back (pretty please?) is from the last expansion of Civ3 when wonders gave tourism bonuses. I 'd like to see that expanded to all buildings. Say +1 commerce per age since they expired including the one they expired in, triple that for wonders?
     
  14. gazius

    gazius Warlord

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    Would it be possible in 2.9 to see the Open Border agreement split into giving various kinds of access? I'd like to trade with a nation, but I don't want to give them permission to send units into my territory or across it. Preferably split among navy, army, airforce, and commerce, but just differentiating between economic and military would be ok. China is unlikely to allow the US to march or lay rail through their country to allow us a new route to Afghanistan, but we'll send our goods there.
     
  15. RobO

    RobO King

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    This is so obvious that I wonder why it hasn't been done a long time ago. Perhaps it has in another mod, or perhaps it can't be done.

    The ships can differentiate between different kind of units, why not open border agreements? The basic open borders agreements should allow scouting units, missionaries and workers - probably not anything else. Settlers, perhaps, but I'd prefer myself to keep them out. Perhaps the simple way to do it is to pick units that can't attack.
     
  16. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    The reason why this hasn't been done is simple. The game already has an open borders deal, and changing the way it works would require the modder to go and find every instance in the million+ lines of code that it mentions open borders, and update it. I don't feel like doing that. Most modders don't.
     
  17. RobO

    RobO King

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    I understand that.

    But would it be possible/practical to implement a new diplomatic agreement that only allowed units that cannot attack to pass the border? I guess it might be hard to teach the AI to use it, but it would certainly be very useful for the human player.
     
  18. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    It would be hard to teach the AI to use it. I could add it, that part would be simple enough.
     
  19. RobO

    RobO King

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    I posted a poll to get a feeling for the need and spark some discussion. This may have undesired side effects.
     
  20. Cozart

    Cozart Chieftain

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    Like anal leakage or priapism, or just headaches and white light sensitivity?
     

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