Rise of Mankind v2.0 discussion

zappara · Sep 13, 2007

Rise of Mankind mod is slowly reaching v1.0 which I hope to be as stable and balanced as possible. It will not however have all the features I originally intended to add to this mod. That's why we need to start discussing what features to include to version 2.0.

I'll list here things that I'd like to include:

Mods to combine

Solver's unofficial patch
Solver's Events
Ranged Bombardment
M.A.D nukes
4Lerts
zCivics (for civic specific units/buildings)
Secret Technology

Techs

Spoiler :

Buildings

Spoiler :

Religions

Spoiler :

Corporations

Spoiler :

Events

Spoiler :

Wonders

Spoiler :

Projects

Spoiler :

Improvements

Spoiler :

Resources

Spoiler :

Civics
- at least one new civic category and new options to existing categories

Air unit promotions

Spoiler :

Special promotions (gained from wonders/events)

Spoiler :

Other things

- buildings that need electricity (power) as requirement for any production, including science, health, food, hammer, culture, happiness, commerce
- Zone of control like in Civ3
- Civilization specific flavor unit lists (huge task)

All the things mentioned above might not end up in the final mod. These are just lists of things that I've thought about while I have been making version 1.0.

If you want to help with this task, you could start by answering the following questions:

1. What mods or mod components should be combined?

2. How should unit/building/wonders/tech costs be changed?

3. How should unit/building/wonders/tech effects be changed?

4. What units/buildings/wonders/techs should be added?

5. What religions should be added?

6. How existing religions could be modified to be more unique?

7. What Corporations should be added?

8. How existing Corporations could be modified to be more unique?

9. What resources & improvements could be added?

10. Do you think existing resources & improvements should be modified? How?

11. What events could be added?

12. Other changes?

zappara · Sep 13, 2007

reserved just in case

Nihilista · Sep 13, 2007

Hmm what about nano-technologies , could add differents types of tech and buildings using the principle , nano-chips , nano-medecine , nano-chemistry ,nano-composites materials , nano-electronic .

Having differents risks of nano-pollutions depending the buildings or the units (like the nuclear plants risking to explode)or reducing health.

Buildings :
Nano-chip factory : add +5 pcent production , +10 pcents science ,+2 disease,required to build any further nano-builing.
Nano-medecine center : +2 health , +5 pcent production .
Nano-War studies : +2xp to nano-ehanced units , +20 pcents production to nano-ehanced units , +2 disease.
Nano-products recyling plants.

Nano-ehanced units : Nano-Infantry : about 10 pcents stronger than modern infantry , with special ability medic , +1 movement .
Nano-Spy : really small machines , so harder to counter than real spies .
Nano-terrorists : would be looking like a corporate businessman but would turn havoc in the targeted city .
Oh well , that was just a try to find out what could be done with nano-techs.

moverred · Sep 13, 2007

I like the mod, a lot. In answer to which possible mods/modules you could add I would suggest FexFX--Bigger-Longer-Deeper-Harder mod which changes the game's speeds and allows for a different feel to the epic game. Something along the lines of longer tech research but shorter build times, at least from what I've noticed. Anyway, I really enjoy it and since this is the ultimate epic civ game I think they would compliment each other well. If you want more info I would suggest searching it and it will come up, you can't miss it. Thanks again for this mod, I hope that people jump on board and really help you get this thing perfected :goodjob:

Ahh yes, there is also an Earth map by Genghis Kai that is fun to play and would make a great addition to your game. The new resources that you introduce would need to be placed but that is really the only addition needed. Anyway, thanks for all the hard work, you are doing wonders.

enaceo · Sep 14, 2007

I posted in the original thread about this but I'll write up again here .
I had an idea about the evolution of currency (introducing different types of currency so you wouldn't just research currency and bam you had all types of money) .
So anyway - Here's what I had in mind:
I'm not sure if currency is dependent on paper right now (I think it is but I'm not sure ) so if it is - remove that - and branch the following off of currency:
Currency ---> Coins [need copper and give + maybe 5% or something cost to town maintenance (people are going to want coins for their work) but gives more production in each city (people would work harder to earn coins ) - maybe + 2 hammers or something maybe more) ---> Valuable Coins (need gold or silver) - these give +1 trade route per city (because foreign merchants would want to get some coins from you) , maybe gives a bigger chance of a great merchant appearing in all cities (not sure how much) and increases production even further (+ 5 hammers maybe more per town ) .

Then: Paper + Currency ----> Drafts (an early form of bills - was given to farmers and such for their work) - this gives +5% food from pastures and farms -----> Bills (this gives+5% food on top of that ) and also +10% or something income between your own cities or something like this .

Then Bills + Printing Press and something else I think , maybe someone with more info on what money needs for production can help -----> Modern Polymer bills (this gives +10% from foreign sources )

And later Modern Polymer Bills + Plastics + Computers -----> Credit Cards which give + income from supermarket (you should have it by then ) and +1 happiness per town (and possibly faster production times for buildings and units since it's easier to pay for them ) .

I also have an idea about a possible new improvement - something like a shrine or altar or something dedicated to your religion that can be built on your land and on neutral land close to other civs' borders so that if they build a city close to the shrine and it is connected to a road it spreads your religion ( and maybe give each missionary the ability to change the religion of the shrine but if they do that a few groups of loyalists appear and start to attack towns that have other religion than the shrine used to have ).

Monty845 · Sep 14, 2007

Preface: I have no idea how difficult this would be to implement and it may go beyond the scope of what your looking for.

Suggestion: Allow players to either stop the governer from building/suggesting certain buildings or implement a way for players to create custom prioritization of buildings.

It is awsome how many new buildings this mod adds to the game, and I think it makes very good sense that there be negative consequences on some buildings. Some of the buildings have rather large consequences, such as the oil refinery/international harbor (-1 food per water tile) or the brothel (-25% gold) or the dirty power buildings. As your empire gets very large, it becomes convenient to rely on the suggested building options to speed up your turn, especially in the outlying, less important cities that may have dozens of buildings left to build. The problem is that often the suggested building will hurt your city more than it helps. Particularly with the Oil Refinery once one or two is built, and the Brothel in a city with no unhappiness. And once a city starts suggesting it, it rarely stops till you relent and build it. What appears to be needed is either a don't build this option, or better, a build priority system.

Also, with buildings now carrying with them more penalties, the ability to removed, either by selling, or simply destroying them would be great. (I have seen this in a mod, though I do not know which)

strategyonly · Sep 15, 2007

You have the ship promotions classified for wooden, steam, diesel, etc., but all the ships themselves are still classified as naval units so none of them can take the promotions. I've noticed a similar problem with the air units and armored units. None of them seem to get any promotions either.

zappara · Sep 15, 2007

strategyonly said:
You have the ship promotions classified for wooden, steam, diesel, etc., but all the ships themselves are still classified as naval units so none of them can take the promotions. I've noticed a similar problem with the air units and armored units. None of them seem to get any promotions either.

That's a new one. Checked Civ4UnitInfos.xml just and there was 0 units with UNITCOMBAT_NAVAL which was removed and replaced with UNITCOMBAT_WOODEN_SHIPS etc. Also 0 results for UNITCOMBAT_AIR so there's no air units that are still in that group. To make sure there's no such problem I used Grep to find UNITCOMBAT_NAVAL from all python/xml files and only references to it are in CvAdvisorUtils.py file (there when you build your first naval units). For me promotions have worked correctly and I can't find the bug you've experienced.

strategyonly · Sep 15, 2007

Your right, i was using old MOD, sorry, then how about this one:

There seems to be dozens of techs that don't lead to anywhere or anything. What's the point of a tech that provides no build, unit, civic, or new tech branch?

zappara · Sep 15, 2007

@strategyonly

What version have you been looking at?

v0.9.4 has only 4 empty techs and one of them is disabled so that it can't be researched. On my WIP version there's only 3 empty techs left at the moment and when v1.0 is complete, there won't be empty techs left since I'm adding stuff to them. Earlier versions had more empty techs because I hadn't had time to new stuff to them, I just built first new tech tree and rest of new stuff has been made after that.

For version 2.0 I'm planning to add few new future techs but for most parts it will remain the same as for v1.0.

strategyonly · Sep 15, 2007

zappara said:
@strategyonly

What version have you been looking at? v0.9.4 has only 4 empty techs and one of them is disabled so that it can't be researched. On my WIP version there's only 3 empty techs left at the moment and when v1.0 is complete, there won't be empty techs left since I'm adding stuff to them. Earlier versions had more empty techs because I hadn't had time to new stuff to them, I just built first new tech tree and rest of new stuff has been made after that.

For version 2.0 I'm planning to add few new future techs but for most parts it will remain the same as for v1.0.

Ok how about weaving? leads no place?

i have current update also.

Kalimakhus · Sep 16, 2007

@Strategyonly

Dead-end tech tree branches are not bugs in themselves. Some of them are logical IMO. For instance Chariotry and Elephant Riding are needed only if you really want to have the units they provide. I agree to the idea in principle. You can either choose to research the tech and get the unit or to move on and advance through the main path faster. It also makes more sense in case you don't have access to Ivory, or Horses.

Now what seems a sort of a fault that is better be thought over is the case when a building or a promotion is also attached to the tech. While you can do without a unit especially if you can't build it in the first place you still may need the building or the promotion.

Bottom line is, dead-end techs are good as they make you think of the way you take through the tech tree based on your needs and resources.

zappara · Sep 17, 2007

Those techs that seem not to lead further are often used as AND requirements for other techs/units/buildings. I had to use AND operator in many cases since the tech tree arrows caused a mess if used OR operator. For example Weaving is required for Sailing. There are also many units/buildings that required other techs than the one that enables them, for example War Elephant (construction tech) units do require Elephant riding tech.

Wessel V1 · Sep 17, 2007

The F1 championship sounds nice to me :cool:

segrix · Sep 19, 2007

Exhaustible resources (iron, oil, etc...). It can be done as events.
Or another hard way (but more interesting): One iron mine or horse pasture can support 10 (for example) units that need this resource to be made. So if you have two iron resources and one horse you can produce 10 knights (1 iron + 1 horse) and 10 pikemans (1 last iron).
Can anyone make it? It would be GREAT!

P.S. I'm not native English speaker, so don't be severe

little_cyclone · Sep 19, 2007

One thing I liked in anprior civ titles (I forget which, I think it was CTP) was a wonder by the name of "egalitarian act", by which your nation had add'l happiness and all others hadd add'l unhappiness. Any way we might be able to bring in such a wonder? Maybe make it a latter age wonder?

Samael · Sep 24, 2007

How existing religions could be modified to be more unique?
Unique effects seem to be the most common and popular feature of them. Perhaps develop differences between earlier and later religions? Early, local religions may not spread by priests and, whilst there are wonders that tie in with them, they may lack Holy Shrines and Cathedrals not be able to build the Apostolic Palace?

What Corporations should be added?
Additional ones to represent computing, fast food and shoes/clothes/Nike/etc, preferably with multiples of each with different effects.

How existing Corporations could be modified to be more unique?
Corporations should NOT compete just because they use the same resources. That's competition in the wild; in business, I would've thought they'd be competing for the consumer. This means that computing (Apple, Microsoft), gaming (Nintendo, Sega), fast food (MacDonalds, Burger King) would compete with each other but artists and engineers don't.

What resources & improvements could be added?
More 'by-products'? Possibly some with negative consequences? Not quite sure what though...
Additional 'upgrade' improvements? Camps become 'Trapper Camps' or something? Not sure...

What events could be added?
Well... if you're in need of events... I think I could write up a big list of ideas and affects. That is, if you're open to suggestions.

Also, seeing the list of things includes things such as golf courses, zoos and travel agencies... is there a chance we might see the tourism mechanic from Civ 3 return?

If not, the Travel Agency might increase commerce in the city it's built in but reduce happiness in a few distant locations (representing possible local resentment of tourists) or increase happiness in those locations (representing local support for tourism and the jobs it provides)?

zappara · Sep 24, 2007

Nihilista said:
Hmm what about nano-technologies , could add differents types of tech and buildings using the principle , nano-chips , nano-medecine , nano-chemistry ,nano-composites materials , nano-electronic .

Having differents risks of nano-pollutions depending the buildings or the units (like the nuclear plants risking to explode)or reducing health.

Buildings :
Nano-chip factory : add +5 pcent production , +10 pcents science ,+2 disease,required to build any further nano-builing.
Nano-medecine center : +2 health , +5 pcent production .
Nano-War studies : +2xp to nano-ehanced units , +20 pcents production to nano-ehanced units , +2 disease.
Nano-products recyling plants.

Nano-ehanced units : Nano-Infantry : about 10 pcents stronger than modern infantry , with special ability medic , +1 movement .
Nano-Spy : really small machines , so harder to counter than real spies .
Nano-terrorists : would be looking like a corporate businessman but would turn havoc in the targeted city .
Oh well , that was just a try to find out what could be done with nano-techs.

Although those are good ideas, I'm not very fond of adding that many nano-<place your word here> things to the mod. Those ideas can be used, just need to figure slightly better names for them.

If you like reading novels that have things like those, I recommend reading Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep and A Deepness in the Sky books and Iain M. Banks' The Culture books and Alastair Reynolds' Revelation Space + sequels. Idea for Nanite cloud unit was taken from one book written by those authors.

@enaceo

Your idea about currency's evolution is good one - currency in this game is in pretty simple form so anything that would make it more like in real world, would be nice addition. Not sure how to implement this kind of idea though (yet).

segrix said:
Exhaustible resources (iron, oil, etc...). It can be done as events.
Or another hard way (but more interesting): One iron mine or horse pasture can support 10 (for example) units that need this resource to be made. So if you have two iron resources and one horse you can produce 10 knights (1 iron + 1 horse) and 10 pikemans (1 last iron).
Can anyone make it? It would be GREAT!

P.S. I'm not native English speaker, so don't be severe

I think Next War mod has exhaustible resources and it's done in python. I think it wouldn't be that hard to add this feature to my mod as well as I could look how it was done for Next War. Events can give new resources and I've seen this happen in my games sometimes. Not sure how limiting unit amounts to resource amounts could be made - that kind of feature would give reason to go war with your neighbors more often since you need more resources if you want bigger armies. But at the same time it might cripple the AI players since they wouldn't be "wise" enough to build correct unit types to effectively compete with against player.

segrix · Sep 25, 2007

zappara said:
Not sure how limiting unit amounts to resource amounts could be made - that kind of feature would give reason to go war with your neighbors more often since you need more resources if you want bigger armies. But at the same time it might cripple the AI players since they wouldn't be "wise" enough to build correct unit types to effectively compete with against player.

That's mean NO... What a pity! :cry:

But there is no sense to produce a lot of ammunition or steel or oil products (or anything else) without limiting unit amounts to resource amounts. What do you think about this? Don't you wanna even try to realize this idea?

Samael · Sep 25, 2007

Isn't someone making a quantative resources mod?

Rise of Mankind v2.0 discussion

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