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(Rising Tide) Investing in Diplomatic Capital

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by Amrunril, Sep 6, 2015.

  1. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

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    Looking at Rising Tide's diplomacy system, it looks like there will be a variety of ways to generate diplomatic capital. There don't, however, seem to be many ways to focus on generating more capital or to prioritize other resources at the expense of diplomatic capital. Rather than being generated by its own specific buildings (at least in the early game), diplomatic capital is produced in small quantities by building that are already prioritized for their other functions (Old Earth Relics and Trade Depots). It also seems to be generated by wonders, but again, wonders are likely to be built for their unique bonuses with the diplomatic capital a secondary consideration at best. And without a rework to the virtue trees, it will be impossible to invest in diplomatic capital generation through this system.

    This is a dramatic contrast to other resources in the game. A player who wants to invest in science can build laboratories early and choose virtues in the knowledge tree, while a player who wants to invest in energy can build thorium reactors and take industry virtues, but a player who wants to focus on diplomatic capital has no comparable options. It's also distinctly different from faith, the most comparable mechanic in Civ Vs first expansion, which had new buildings created specifically to produce it and a social policy tree reworked to focus on it.

    I'm curious as to whether this limitation (assuming none of this is changing before release) is an oversight or an intentional choice. I can imagine the developers may have wanted to give each faction a roughly equivalent amount of diplomatic capital in order to emphasize the exchange of capital through agreements, but this system doesn't seem like a good way of achieving that. Instead, it seems like it will simply allow players who are already doing well to extend their success to the diplomacy system without having to actually invest additional resources in doing so. Are there other possible reasons for setting the system up this way? (Adding an early game diplomatic capital-focused building seems like such a simple change and such an obvious extension of the game's basic pattern that there almost has to be a specific reason for the developers not to have done it) Are there ways I'm overlooking to invest more or less heavily in diplomatic capital generation?
     
  2. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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    I think you forgot agreements. Players can sell their agreements which give them both a lump sum of diplo capital as well as a per turn income in diplo capital.
     
  3. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

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    What I meant by "investing" is allocating your own resources (research, production, virtues etc.) in such a way that you generate more diplomatic capital. Selling agreements does generate capital, but your ability to get capital this way is going to be determined much more by other players/AIs desire to buy your agreements than your willingness to sell them.

    I suppose choosing traits because you know others will want to buy the corresponding agreements would be an investment of current capital in future capital, but how feasible this is remains to be seen, and it still wouldn't allow investment from anywhere beyond the diplomatic system.

    (As a side note I think that while the capital per turn from agreements goes to the other player, the lump sum at the start is simply expended.)
     
  4. ZTZaorish

    ZTZaorish Warlord

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    Yeah, it is a bit strange at first. But perhaps you can think of it as, players should get this resource regardless, BUT they can get a bit more by focusing on Building A over building B or whatever~
     
  5. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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    The devs have said that you can also get diplo capital from covert ops. So that is another way to collect diplo capital.
     
  6. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    I think you invest in diplo capital by getting traits with good agreements instead of traits that are good in themselves.
     
  7. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

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    I had forgotten that. I'd like to see something a bit earlier than that, but at least it's a start.

    That's a little like saying you invest in culture by taking virtues that give you culture bonuses instead of ones that are otherwise strong. That can be part of how you invest in culture, but you wouldn't want it to be the only way. In the case of culture there are buildings, satellites and tile improvements designed specifically to increase your output, so it seems odd for diplomatic capital to primarily come as a side effect on other buildings.

    Additionally, for choosing weak traits with strong agreements to be an effective strategy in single player, the AI would have to be good at evaluating agreements. Given what their belief choices in Civ V look like, I wouldn't hold my breath.
     
  8. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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    Keep in mind that diplo capital can also be spent to rush buy units and buildings in your cities. So, you can use the capital that you get from agreements (diplomacy side) to rush buy a unit or a building (domestic side).
     
  9. ZTZaorish

    ZTZaorish Warlord

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    I was unaware of this, it seems a bit like diplomatic capital is serving the same purpose as energy in some ways. I'm not sure if that is a good idea.

    Unless the units purchased with it were some sort of unique only acquirable with diplo capital.
     
  10. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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    No, the units or buildings are the regular ones, not unique ones. I actually see diplo capital as being more like "faith" in civ5. Both allow you to get domestic perks for your civ as well as rush buy units or buildings, the only difference is that diplo capital also let's you buy perks (called agreements) from other civs as well.
     
  11. Halbbruder

    Halbbruder Prince

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    Ditto. It is very much like faith from civ 5, but way more flexible.
     
  12. DutchJob

    DutchJob Prince

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    If powerful enough, diplomatic capital is a good incentive to go wide so you can build more OER's etc.

    One of the things I like about BE compared to BNW is that going wide isn't such an hassle. One month and we'll see!
     
  13. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

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    I didn't get how diplomatic capital could buy things at first but I guess it represents using international connections to get mercenaries etc. That aren't available in the local market.
     
  14. Halbbruder

    Halbbruder Prince

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    That's one way of seeing it. Another way of seeing it would be similar to Iraq and Afghanistan requesting troops from other countries to address its militant problems.

    I also wish to know more of the following in diplomatic capital:
    - in replacing personal traits of the same category (domestic, political, military), do you get some diplo capital back or not (say at 50% total value)?
    - how do diplomatic capital costs scale into late game?
    - do agreements need to be refreshed and are they altered or terminated when you reach sanctioned status with a sponsor you have an agreement with without declaring war?
     
  15. cazaderonus

    cazaderonus Actual Dad.

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    Well wonders will give DCPT now so i guess its another way of investing hammers to create more diplomatic capital.

    My first game will probably be with Integr, focusing on building the biggest diplomatic capital per turn i can. Her main personality trait works great for that purpose (obviously) and there are plenty traits in the other category that provide science\culture etc for every agreements initiated by the player.

    So spamming the cost reduction perk and taking any cheap to sustain agreement might be a good plan.
     

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